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N00B questions again.. Turns

2.8K views 38 replies 21 participants last post by  1954rider  
#1 ·
Ok, I'm a N00B and I know it. I'm getting used to the VOL, and am starting to get comfortable with it.

My heart-stopper right now is turns. Not from a stop sign or in traffic, but open road right and left hand turns, but more right than left.

In a left hand turn, I feel comfortable with my speed choice, and my ability to countersteer.

My right hand turns however, are not so smooth. I feel like I'm slowing way too much, and I think if I don't just steer it I won't make it. I find myself slowing to the 10 - 15 mph range in order to comfortably steer through the turn.

Should I be able to go faster? Should I be able to countersteer?

I know parking lots help, but that's a lot and not a real road scenario, and the mind does different things.

Any thoughts, suggestions, condemnations?
 
#3 ·
Dave, I went thru a similar struggle when I was learning. Right-hand turns, at speed, were what gave me trouble, too.

My problem was I wasn't rolling on the throttle thru the turn. I needed to be appropriately slowed down *before* getting into the turn, so I could be rolling on the power going into and thru it. Without being on the throttle, it felt wobbly as I was turning.

Dunno why it was right-hand turns that troubled me; I was fine in left-hand turns. Shook my confidence for a spell until I figured out the mistake I was making. I pissed off some cage-drivers as I "unlearned" my bad habit -- y'know, slowing down a bunch before committing to a turn -- but eventually I got the hang of it and learned to better judge my speed. It just took time & practice.

BTW, I also realized I wasn't moving my body to support those right turns. I'd shift my body for left turns, but would stay fairly rigid in right turns. That didn't help, either.

Cordially,
Christine
 
#4 ·
To answer one of your questions, if your riding down the road, you should be able to counter-steer through almost every corner.

The main thing is practice, practice, practice.

If you can't get any of the Ride Like a Pro dvd's, then I would suggest finding a good stretch of road that isn't all that traveled and has plenty of curves, and ride it..a lot. Practice at slower speeds and as your confidence increases, speed up. Just ride and ride and ride and ride.

Also, if you have any one who rides near you or with you that has been riding a while and you respect, talk to them. Sometimes riding with someone else will help you if you can feel comfortable riding with them. I know people who ride better leading someone, and some people feel more comfortable following.

Basically, you just need to find your mojo.
 
#5 ·
daveandris said:
...I know parking lots help, but that's a lot and not a real road scenario, and the mind does different things.

Any thoughts, suggestions, condemnations?
I think the more you practice in the p-lot (Ride Like A Pro dvd) the more comfortable you will be with the bike & how it handles ...

practice slow speed right hand circles & (with a big enough open lot) you can practice riding straight ahead (into 2nd or 3rd gear) & then taking right hand turns... if there is already a circle painted on the lot (find a lot used by an MSF type course or at the local DMV after hours) ride up to the circle & then follow the curve to the right ...

brake before the turn / enter the turn on the outer edge / go to the inner edge & then accelerate thru apex & out of the turn to the outer edge again ...

by practicing the "slow down / outside / inside - throttle to - outside" approach you 'straighten out' the turn & build proper habits to transfer to the road.

main thing ~ ! practice practice practice !!! 8)

have an experienced rider (preferably one that has taken an MSF type coarse) that you trust with you in the lot, so they can give you pointers as you go ! :wink:
 
#6 ·
Redzdvl said:
daveandris said:
...I know parking lots help, but that's a lot and not a real road scenario, and the mind does different things.

Any thoughts, suggestions, condemnations?
I think the more you practice in the p-lot (Ride Like A Pro dvd) the more comfortable you will be with the bike & how it handles ...

practice slow speed right hand circles & (with a big enough open lot) you can practice riding straight ahead (into 2nd or 3rd gear) & then taking right hand turns... if there is already a circle painted on the lot (find a lot used by an MSF type course or at the local DMV after hours) ride up to the circle & then follow the curve to the right ...

brake before the turn / enter the turn on the outer edge / go to the inner edge & then accelerate thru apex & out of the turn to the outer edge again ...

by practicing the "slow down / outside / inside - throttle to - outside" approach you 'straighten out' the turn & build proper habits to transfer to the road.

main thing ~ ! practice practice practice !!! 8)

have an experienced rider (preferably one that has taken an MSF type coarse) that you trust with you in the lot, so they can give you pointers as you go ! :wink:
just a suggestion, but around here, any day but sunday and wednesday nights, most church parking lots are empty and you can get "soccer markers" at the dollar store, 12 for a buck...... set up your own practice course and become one with your bike
 
#7 ·
This has all been good advice and I really appreciate all the responses. It's helped me think about what I'm doing "wrong".

Now that I think about it... Christine, you hit the nail right on the head. I've been envisioning my last few rides an on left hand turns, I've been leaning the bike under me. On right hand turns, for some reason I've been leaning with the bike, and not trusting it to do it's job. To put it in your words, I've been to "rigid".

Is it because a left hand turn is a more sweeping turn and is more comfortable, and a right hand turn is a tighter turn and the subconscious thinks "if I can lean with it, I can lean it more, and make it turn tighter?"

Again, hindsight being 20/20, when I'm riding the curves, I let the bike take it's path and guide it along it's way.... BUT, when it comes time to take an intersection type turn, I try to force it to turn, which blows my confidence and my stability.
 
#8 ·
daveandris said:
Ok, I'm a N00B and I know it. I'm getting used to the VOL, and am starting to get comfortable with it.

My heart-stopper right now is turns. Not from a stop sign or in traffic, but open road right and left hand turns, but more right than left.

In a left hand turn, I feel comfortable with my speed choice, and my ability to countersteer.

My right hand turns however, are not so smooth. I feel like I'm slowing way too much, and I think if I don't just steer it I won't make it. I find myself slowing to the 10 - 15 mph range in order to comfortably steer through the turn.

Should I be able to go faster? Should I be able to countersteer?

I know parking lots help, but that's a lot and not a real road scenario, and the mind does different things.

Any thoughts, suggestions, condemnations?

Are you left handed or right handed?
 
#9 ·
:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: I think I just realized my mental hangup!!!! In a car, it's been so ingrained into me that you start your turn AT the corner. On a bike however, the turn needs to be started BEFORE the corner.... Does that make sense?

Thanks for letting me use this thread as a sounding board, I've been driving a cage for 17 years and a bike for 1 month. It's going to take a lot of getting use to the differences.

BTW... the wife sez after this beer it's bedtime.... something about work tomorrow.... I said "who cares?", she said "the mortgage"... she wins. As always!! :roll:
 
#11 ·
daveandris said:
cactusjack said:
Are you left handed or right handed?
Right handed.... Thoughts?
"only the left-handed are in their Right Mind" ... I tend to buck the trend tho :p
 
#12 ·
I am also right handed and find that my right turns are not as strong as my left. Go figure. Now with 4 years of riding and 25,000 miles under my belt, I still have days where the right turns aren't as comfortable.
 
#13 ·
Might also look into finding a copy of "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough. I think much of his stuff is the basis of the MSF course (or much of the MSF course is in his book) -- either way it's an excellent book. He has a good section on cornering that I found helpful when I started out. It's a fairly easy read with plenty of pics and illustrations -- read it cover to cover or just a topic at a time. Has a lot of valuable info and instruction and covers "stuff" you probably don't even know to think about yet. It's a $25 cover price, well worth it, but I'd bet if you checked Amazon or Ebay you might find a cheaper copy.

Edit: Since I mentioned it I might as well throw in a link. :wink:

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1889540536
 
#14 ·
I'm stilll dealing with less than confident right turns at speed.

For me it's the concept of, in a left hand turn, I feel there is more road width available to me to choose my line. Should I be going a bit too fast and have to drift to the outside of the corner, there are no cars about to hit me head on.

In right hand turns, I have to be more cautious of my speed because I feel I have less road width to work with.

FWIW, I'm a lefty.
 
#17 ·
daveandris said:
cactusjack said:
Are you left handed or right handed?
Right handed.... Thoughts?
I was told once that right handed people have difficulty with right turns while with lefties, the opposite is true.

Since we ride on the right side of the road in North America, right turns will be tighter because they are on the inside of center. Left turns are wider because they are on the outside of center.
 
#18 ·
cactusjack said:
daveandris said:
cactusjack said:
Are you left handed or right handed?
Right handed.... Thoughts?
I was told once that right handed people have difficulty with right turns while with lefties, the opposite is true.

Since we ride on the right side of the road in North America, right turns will be tighter because they are on the inside of center. Left turns are wider because they are on the outside of center.
I'm right handed but find right turns are easier. Does that make me weird? :lol: :lol:
 
#19 ·
I'm pretty much the same with lefts or rights (right-handed), but there is a 90 degree right on my way to work that I don't like for some reason. It is on a busy street (turning on to a quiet street) and it is a downhilll approach, and you keep dropping as you go through the turn. I'm nervous in that one every time.
 
#20 ·
barrynfla said:
[quote="I'm right handed but find right turns are easier. Does that make me weird? :lol: :lol:
Do you surf, skateboard, snowboard, ride a scooter, waterski single board? If you do, which foot do you have forward, left or right?
Just wondering if there is a correlation of your comment about turns and what is called "goofy foot" on these sports listed.
 
#21 ·
Mort said:
barrynfla said:
[quote="I'm right handed but find right turns are easier. Does that make me weird? :lol: :lol:
Do you surf, skateboard, snowboard, ride a scooter, waterski single board? If you do, which foot do you have forward, left or right?
Just wondering if there is a correlation of your comment about turns and what is called "goofy foot" on these sports listed.
I don't do any of those sports, but I tried skateboarding and IIRC had my left foot forward.
 
#22 ·
daveandris said:
This has all been good advice and I really appreciate all the responses. It's helped me think about what I'm doing "wrong".

Now that I think about it... Christine, you hit the nail right on the head. I've been envisioning my last few rides an on left hand turns, I've been leaning the bike under me. On right hand turns, for some reason I've been leaning with the bike, and not trusting it to do it's job. To put it in your words, I've been to "rigid".

Is it because a left hand turn is a more sweeping turn and is more comfortable, and a right hand turn is a tighter turn and the subconscious thinks "if I can lean with it, I can lean it more, and make it turn tighter?"

Again, hindsight being 20/20, when I'm riding the curves, I let the bike take it's path and guide it along it's way.... BUT, when it comes time to take an intersection type turn, I try to force it to turn, which blows my confidence and my stability.
Well you should be leaning with the bike and not leaning the bike under yourself. In time you will get to a point where you push right and the bike goes right, you push left and the bike goes left. Countersteering is really counter intuitive but once you master it carving corners is nirvana. Just remember brake into the corner and accelerate out.
 
#24 ·
barrynfla said:
cactusjack said:
daveandris said:
cactusjack said:
Are you left handed or right handed?
Right handed.... Thoughts?
I was told once that right handed people have difficulty with right turns while with lefties, the opposite is true.

Since we ride on the right side of the road in North America, right turns will be tighter because they are on the inside of center. Left turns are wider because they are on the outside of center.
I'm right handed but find right turns are easier. Does that make me weird? :lol: :lol:
I dunno Barry. Maybe. I was just regurgitating what someone once told me. :lol:
 
#25 ·
Mort said:
OP, did you go to MSF school? If not, you should start there. If you want "real life" practice, find a quiet neighborhood and practice on their streets. when no cars are around, weave between the lines on the street.
FX4 said:
Well you should be leaning with the bike and not leaning the bike under yourself. In time you will get to a point where you push right and the bike goes right, you push left and the bike goes left. Countersteering is really counter intuitive but once you master it carving corners is nirvana. Just remember brake into the corner and accelerate out.
I'm home from work and getting back to checking the posts...

Mort - I did go to a 2 day MSF course, and now that I'm out riding in the real world, there are a few things that I find were lacking. Turning from a stop for one, and we did a lot of practice on the 130deg left and right turns, but I'm finding they had a larger line than intersection type turns.

FX4 - When I took the MSF course, they talked about keeping an upright position while leaning the bike.... The way they described the push right - go right was you knew you were doing it correctly if your right arm was fully extended and your left arm was bent as that side of the bike came up (I know that's a bad way of explaining it but...). That keeps you in a more upright position, and as you got the bike into a steeper lean, you would begin to lean with it some, but still have that relative upright position. One of the things they had us practice, was when in turns, keep your chin and shoulders as level to the road as possible. The explanation for this was it kept the center of gravity over the center of the bike, and not our at the end of your body. Basically draw a straight line down from your head and neck to the road, and the more vertical you can keep that, the further in the center of gravity is.

Is this completely wrong? or did I really blow my understanding of that?
 
#26 ·
And I guess I need to clarify a little bit. I'm pretty comfortable with riding the curves going down a road, and can take some pretty sharp ones with ease, and am definitely counter-steering those and loving it!! :wayhappy:

My concern is more of the intersection style turns. Turning right from road A onto road B at speed.