It's been a long time coming. Unfortunately, the MoCo put all their eggs in one basket. They have been building a premium product and charging a premium price for too long. They have nothing to fall back on, as demand for their premium product has continued to drop. People don't have the disposable income that they once had. Big ticket luxury items are one of the hardest hit. Especially when that product's price tag rivals that of many mid-size sedans...

The loss of jobs is regrettable. Especially in this economy. I'm sorry for the workers who are affected and wish them the best.

I also hope Harley can turn things around, but that won't happen until the economy improves and people have more disposable income. In the mean time, they might do themselves a favor and focus on more affordable bikes to draw the middle income crowd.

 

In the mean time, they might do themselves a favor and focus on more affordable bikes to draw the middle income crowd.

I disagree.
They would ruin their image by producing affordable motorcycles. Owning a Harley is a status symbol with middle-aged American men. That's how they continue to produce an out-of-date and low-quality product and sell it for a premium.

 

In the mean time, they might do themselves a favor and focus on more affordable bikes to draw the middle income crowd.

I disagree.
They would ruin their image by producing affordable motorcycles. Owning a Harley is a status symbol with middle-aged American men. That's how they continue to produce an out-of-date and low-quality product and sell it for a premium.

I wouldn't necessarily say low-quality but they would be very wise to broaden their line and produce some bikes that had more appeal to younger generations.

 

In the mean time, they might do themselves a favor and focus on more affordable bikes to draw the middle income crowd.

I disagree.
They would ruin their image by producing affordable motorcycles. Owning a Harley is a status symbol with middle-aged American men. That's how they continue to produce an out-of-date and low-quality product and sell it for a premium.

Well, unless they update their business model and try to attract a younger crowd with a better, more affordable product, they're not going to be around to be a status symbol much longer. This would be bankrutcy #3.

 

Did you see they are finally doing something I said they should do 5 years ago... build a sportster someone would actually want to own? The new 48... I can say there's nothing on the bike I don't like. The cross-bones was a mess but this is pretty nice.

They are losing their fan (boy) base. They don't make anything else. Everyday the 40 somethings that wanted Harleys are turning 60 and realizing that motorcycles kill people and they were never going to ride it anyway. Things are tough there.

The new status symbol bike, unfortunately, is the R1200GS. Remind me to kick Ewan McGregor's butt eh next time I see him.

 

 

In the mean time, they might do themselves a favor and focus on more affordable bikes to draw the middle income crowd.

I disagree.
They would ruin their image by producing affordable motorcycles. Owning a Harley is a status symbol with middle-aged American men. That's how they continue to produce an out-of-date and low-quality product and sell it for a premium.

Well, unless they update their business model and try to attract a younger crowd with a better, more affordable product, they're not going to be around to be a status symbol much longer. This would be bankrutcy #3.

You might think that, until you come out here to the boonies. It's ******* edumocation to teach the younger generation that you're a badass if you own a Harley. It's the thing to do, and the lower middle class will continue to get older and want one, if they're still seen in the same light. If they're something anyone can attain, there goes half the appeal.

 

The new status symbol bike, unfortunately, is the R1200GS. Remind me to kick Ewan McGregor's butt eh next time I see him.

Says the GS owner...
I just don't see it. If anything, it's Ducati.

 

pass that over here.

 

The new status symbol bike, unfortunately, is the R1200GS. Remind me to kick Ewan McGregor's butt eh next time I see him.

Says the GS owner...
I just don't see it. If anything, it's Ducati.

I just see so many R1200GSAs flying off showrooms at 24k a pop. Its crazy... all being purchased by whitbread suburbanite fools who are going to wash it once a week and clean it with a diaper. I saw a guy last year, brand new GSA, with the touratech catalog just opened up and dumped on the bike, cleaning his lamda sensor covers with a toothbrush. I ran over mixed up a bucket of mud and dumped it on the bike. He said it ran better from that day on.

Believe me Steve, I don't like it. I've been riding GSs since 1989 and this uppity crowd getting involved makes me grumpy.

 

GS's are becoming the next hummer? That's just wrong.
Reminds me of the Hayabusa fad of stretching the swingarm, and chroming everything in site. Yuck!

 

The new status symbol bike, unfortunately, is the R1200GS. Remind me to kick Ewan McGregor's butt eh next time I see him.

Says the GS owner...
I just don't see it. If anything, it's Ducati.

I agree with Steve here. BMWs are for yuppie middle age bikers. The status symbol with young riders is Ducati.

Unfortunately your conversation above is why I think it was a mistake for the MotorCo to dump Buell. They should have poured more money into it and turned Eric loose to do what he always wanted to do. Instead they always financially restrained him and forced him to use Harley stores and parts. I always thought that marketing the Buells through Harley dealerships was a mistake and still do. Largely they are different people and Buell riders do not like walking into a Harley store. I think it puts even more potential customers off from buying the product.

I doubt the MotorCo is going anywhere, here in yuppie land where I live the bike of choice is still Harley. It is primarily what I see guys riding in these neighborhoods along with the random BMW.

The young engineers I know that ride are all on Ducati and think I'm an old guy for riding a Harley.

Now with all that said I really think the MotorCo has two problems, first they expanded too much during boom times. Second this has been a long hard recession and people are not buying luxury goods and Harley is a luxury brand. I don't think they have a product problem.

 

The new status symbol bike, unfortunately, is the R1200GS. Remind me to kick Ewan McGregor's butt eh next time I see him.

Says the GS owner...
I just don't see it. If anything, it's Ducati.

I agree with Steve here. BMWs are for yuppie middle age bikers. The status symbol with young riders is Ducati.

Unfortunately your conversation above is why I think it was a mistake for the MotorCo to dump Buell. They should have poured more money into it and turned Eric loose to do what he always wanted to do. Instead they always financially restrained him and forced him to use Harley stores and parts. I always thought that marketing the Buells through Harley dealerships was a mistake and still do. Largely they are different people and Buell riders do not like walking into a Harley store. I think it puts even more potential customers off from buying the product.

I doubt the MotorCo is going anywhere, here in yuppie land where I live the bike of choice is still Harley. It is primarily what I see guys riding in these neighborhoods along with the random BMW.

The young engineers I know that ride are all on Ducati and think I'm an old guy for riding a Harley.

Now with all that said I really think the MotorCo has two problems, first they expanded too much during boom times. Second this has been a long hard recession and people are not buying luxury goods and Harley is a luxury brand. I don't think they have a product problem.

Buell just did not appeal to the average sport rider. They just didn't have "it". If anything, their assosciation with Harley sealed the deal. Maybe the worst mistake they ever made was using a Harley motor in a sport chassis (yes, I know that's how it all started). It's like equipping a formula 1 car with a tractor motor... doesn't make any sense. Sport riders want a lot of horsepower in a water-cooled, high-reving power plant.
I personally could never get over the looks of them. They were just plain ugly to me. Yes, I have to admit that I care somewhat about that, even though I ride a V-strom.
You have to look at the total package.
Why does a Harley sell? Nostalgia, style, sound, and brand identity. How about a sport bike? Performance, style, sound, and to some lesser extent, brand identity. However, each of these are worlds different in their respective categories. Trying to mix them is corporate suicide.

 

The new status symbol bike, unfortunately, is the R1200GS. Remind me to kick Ewan McGregor's butt eh next time I see him.

Says the GS owner...
I just don't see it. If anything, it's Ducati.

I agree with Steve here. BMWs are for yuppie middle age bikers. The status symbol with young riders is Ducati.

Unfortunately your conversation above is why I think it was a mistake for the MotorCo to dump Buell. They should have poured more money into it and turned Eric loose to do what he always wanted to do. Instead they always financially restrained him and forced him to use Harley stores and parts. I always thought that marketing the Buells through Harley dealerships was a mistake and still do. Largely they are different people and Buell riders do not like walking into a Harley store. I think it puts even more potential customers off from buying the product.

I doubt the MotorCo is going anywhere, here in yuppie land where I live the bike of choice is still Harley. It is primarily what I see guys riding in these neighborhoods along with the random BMW.

The young engineers I know that ride are all on Ducati and think I'm an old guy for riding a Harley.

Now with all that said I really think the MotorCo has two problems, first they expanded too much during boom times. Second this has been a long hard recession and people are not buying luxury goods and Harley is a luxury brand. I don't think they have a product problem.

Buell just did not appeal to the average sport rider. They just didn't have "it". If anything, their assosciation with Harley sealed the deal. Maybe the worst mistake they ever made was using a Harley motor in a sport chassis (yes, I know that's how it all started). It's like equipping a formula 1 car with a tractor motor... doesn't make any sense. Sport riders want a lot of horsepower in a water-cooled, high-reving power plant.
I personally could never get over the looks of them. They were just plain ugly to me. Yes, I have to admit that I care somewhat about that, even though I ride a V-strom.
You have to look at the total package.
Why does a Harley sell? Nostalgia, style, sound, and brand identity. How about a sport bike? Performance, style, sound, and to some lesser extent, brand identity. However, each of these are worlds different in their respective categories. Trying to mix them is corporate suicide.

I mostly agree with you here Steve. That is why I said they should have turned Eric loose. If he had been able to do what he wanted there would be a Porsche designed motor in the XB bikes and the VRod would not exist. There are many things right with Buell bikes, the relationship with the MotorCo never was. They should have run it as a completely separate division free to do what it saw as market demand. That never happened. But don't kid yourself the hotrod Sporty motor in the Buell XB series is because the MotorCo took over Eric Buells motor project with Porsche and the result was an unusable motor in a sport bike.

 

I see where you're coming from, and I agree. If they would have distanced Buell from Harley, the results could have been vastly different. I thought the Porsche motor was a step in the right direction, but it definitely belonged in a Buell, rather than in a Harley chassis.
I think Harley's decision making and engineering choices were obviously biased by the "there's nothing better than a Harley" mentality. For many under a certain age, the Harley image and lack of performance are actually a joke, and those are the people buying the majority of sport bikes. It's the same for the "tuner" crowd vs. the carburetor muscle-car crowd. I think each has it's own particular appeal, but hardcore sport riders would never be caught dead on a Harley. The styling really did not help, either. Ducati has that down... Buell should have taken a lesson.

 

I think the only part you are missing is the tuner car and hot rod crowd eventually wants a comfortable SUV, pickup, or luxury car. That is where Harley comes in, about the time that point is reached that Harley touring rig starts looking pretty good because because it is a big old comfortable couch to ride on with all the goodies and still has an element of cool rebellion to it. The most common comment you see over in the touring section of HDForums from 30 something riders that are getting too old for sport bikes is "I had no idea what I was missing, I'm here to stay". That being said some do try it and go back to more performance based bikes.

 

They would ruin their image by producing affordable motorcycles. Owning a Harley is a status symbol with middle-aged American men. That's how they continue to produce an out-of-date and low-quality product and sell it for a premium.

Not so. The Harley image isn't the price; it is the name, the sound, the badge and the colors. I am leery of air cooled bikes, but might well have bought one (to gain the vast dealership network's support, at the least) if it were not that I could get an equivalent-and water cooled-metric ride at about 60% of the Harley price.

If they can figure out how to compete with the metrics on price and not (again) drop in quality, they they will sell like hotcakes on name and 'mystique' alone. Don't hold your breath waiting for this, however.

 

not to offend you, but I think the fact that you are riding a Metric cruiser indicates you are not the market Harley is going after (in recent years before the recession, successfully!). I think if you're into the ride, you will naturally gravitate toward something more reliable and efficient. If you are into being one of the Harley many, there is really no option. Just an opinion... take it or leave it.

 

I think the only part you are missing is the tuner car and hot rod crowd eventually wants a comfortable SUV, pickup, or luxury car. That is where Harley comes in, about the time that point is reached that Harley touring rig starts looking pretty good because because it is a big old comfortable couch to ride on with all the goodies and still has an element of cool rebellion to it. The most common comment you see over in the touring section of HDForums from 30 something riders that are getting too old for sport bikes is "I had no idea what I was missing, I'm here to stay". That being said some do try it and go back to more performance based bikes.

I've seen that too, but many instead go to BMW, or one of the many japanese standards (depending on the money). I'll stay with my original answer of "American status symbol" as to a reason explaining many late-30's guys jumping on that bandwagon. As far as "getting too old for sportbikes" goes, you would probably be very surprised how many guys in their 40's and 50's ride bikes like the Hayabusa. There are a lot out there!

 

That comment tells me you are predisposed to myth propagated in the metric community. The bikes are largely very reliable, Harleys have not been unreliable or problematic for over twenty years. Yes there is the one off bike here and there that is a headache but every manufacturer has that. Claiming Harleys are unreliable is just a myth.

 

I think the only part you are missing is the tuner car and hot rod crowd eventually wants a comfortable SUV, pickup, or luxury car. That is where Harley comes in, about the time that point is reached that Harley touring rig starts looking pretty good because because it is a big old comfortable couch to ride on with all the goodies and still has an element of cool rebellion to it. The most common comment you see over in the touring section of HDForums from 30 something riders that are getting too old for sport bikes is "I had no idea what I was missing, I'm here to stay". That being said some do try it and go back to more performance based bikes.

Uhhh, no, Ron. Harley Davidson owners want Harley Davidson's. Middle aged guys with 20k in their pockets mumble something or another about having ridden ... uhhh yeah, I used to ride, but I gave it up because I looked too cool... I've heard it all before.

They go down, and they buy the Harley... or they buy a metric and drop it 5 times and then they go buy a Harley and drop it too.

These are first time riders, Ron. Don't kid yourself. I have been riding without pause for 28 years, I have broken bones, arthritis, aches and pains, ate dessert a few hundred too many times.... I really need the comfort of a comfortable bike.

And like all the Hi-pro guys, I wouldn't even think about riding a Harley unless it was a second bike. So its not the same as the pimple faced kid in the wanna-be Honda that settles down and buys a mini-van.

 

I think the only part you are missing is the tuner car and hot rod crowd eventually wants a comfortable SUV, pickup, or luxury car. That is where Harley comes in, about the time that point is reached that Harley touring rig starts looking pretty good because because it is a big old comfortable couch to ride on with all the goodies and still has an element of cool rebellion to it. The most common comment you see over in the touring section of HDForums from 30 something riders that are getting too old for sport bikes is "I had no idea what I was missing, I'm here to stay". That being said some do try it and go back to more performance based bikes.

I've seen that too, but many instead go to BMW, or one of the many japanese standards (depending on the money). I'll stay with my original answer of "American status symbol" as to a reason explaining many late-30's guys jumping on that bandwagon. As far as "getting too old for sportbikes" goes, you would probably be very surprised how many guys in their 40's and 50's ride bikes like the Hayabusa. There are a lot out there!

Harley sells almost four bikes to BMWs one. I think a lot more are going to Harley.

 

I think the fact that you are riding a Metric cruiser indicates you are not the market Harley is going after

Gee, I always thought the market Harley was going after was guys (and gals) with enough money to buy one of their bikes.

Say, here's a thought: c'mon over to the Yankee Rally in July (see my sig line; bet you can travel with Studly) and we'll talk it over over a beer or six.

 

That comment tells me you are predisposed to myth propagated in the metric community. The bikes are largely very reliable, Harleys have not been unreliable or problematic for over twenty years. Yes there is the one off bike here and there that is a headache but every manufacturer has that. Claiming Harleys are unreliable is just a myth.

You can honestly type that with a straight face after posting about all the hoops you had to jump through to get your bike to run right?
Of course, I could say the same thing about the V-strom 1000 and all their injection woes, but we're talking about Harley. :lol:
Maybe I'm buying a line, but I just can't believe that.
Whether or not they are reliable, they are not practical for the very reason mentioned- they cost so much more for an equivalent machine.
Make no mistake- I am an unrepentant Harley hater, and I freely admit my bias. That, and I tend to love practical motorcycles (like my utilitarian V-strom). I just can't get my mind around why anyone would want a Harley, when a C-50 will do everything it would (other than impress someone else) for a fraction of the price.

 

harley

Alot of you are saying what i've been saying for years . Harley has totally missed it with the younger crowd thats there future . You can talk to any teenager to 20 something and they'll laugh if you mention a Hog . They need two things to survive an affordable cruiser to match the c50 vulcan 900 vstar 950 and something cool to draw the younger crowd . They need to get the old men out of there design and marketing and get someone younger in there with fresh ideas build a bike thats not on a 90 year old motor liquid cooled and modern styling ....