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Lucas: "America's Finest Motor Oil" ??

16K views 89 replies 21 participants last post by  alarmguy 
#1 · (Edited)
After reading literally hundreds of replies on the longevity of the C50, here and on the internet, I decided to offer up my 2012 C50 as a guinea pig and test the longevity of the engine, transmission and final drive using Lucas products exclusively. Right now I'm just under 6,000 miles after 16 months of ownership. Bought "Jumbo Shrimp" new in April 2013. After the Dealership did the first service I started using Lucas synthetic 20w-50 MC oil on the 2nd service, but switched to Lucas semi-synthetic 10w-40 MC oil this last time - thought it would be better on a low mileage engine. May switch back to the 20w-50 in the future. Changing out the differential oil with Lucas 80w-90 gear lube tomorrow. Again, I may switch to a full synthetic 75w-90 in the future if I think it is necessary. I will also use 1 ounce of Lucas Fuel treatment/Upper cylinder lubricant at every fuel fill up. Seems like a UOA should be done on a regular interval, just to check the progress. Probably every 8,000 -10,000 miles. Not sure if other Volusia and C50 owners have used Lucas MC oils and gear lubes for long periods of time and have posted their experiences, but based on all the negative comments I have read on the internet against Lucas being "AMERICA'S FINEST MOTOR OIL" ...I really doubt it gets used very often.

So that's basically the plan - I decided to put my money where *****' mouth is and see how things go. I'm ready to break some records. :D
 
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Discussion starter · #5 · (Edited)
I've used Lucas HD Oil Stabilizer with 20W50 Mobile 1 V-Twin Synthetic since the 12,000 mile mark. Both in the engine (10% mix) and in the dif (straight). **** good stuff. (180,000+ relatively trouble free miles on my Volusia to show for it so far).

Haven't seen the MC oil, will definitely have to look into it.

How's the gearbox with the 10W40?

Probably shifts a little better with the 20w-50, maybe, but it's really hard to tell a difference...since the gearbox has always shifted super smooth with just the slightest tap of my foot.


[EDIT] Can't find the article I read that showed Lucas MC oil test results compared to nearly every oil brand I've ever heard of. And a few MC oils I didn't know existed - Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc...

Closest thing I could find today was this "Study" of motorcycle oils, by Amsoil INC.

http://www.modernoils.com/media/pdf_files/g2156MotorcycleComparison.pdf
 
Discussion starter · #7 · (Edited)
Let us know in 12 years how it did. These bikes may not be along the lines of a Goldwing or a BMW boxer but they certainly should last a decade without worries at 3.5k miles per year.
Hopefully I'll have good news - should be at the 100,000 - 125,000 mile mark. At least. Normally it would only be 4k-5k/year, but since I just recently sold my cage (2012 truck) I assume that my yearly average will go way up. Only time I won't ride will be when there is salt, snow and ice on the streets, or if it's less than 20F outside. Then I'll carpool.
 
Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
BlutoBodine, You're a braver person than I judging by the pdf you provided. Definitely would not put that stuff in the crankcase of any of my vehicles.

Been using Lucas motor oils for nearly 15 years, in all my vehicles:

2000 F150 Lariat - stock (sold at 115,000 miles)
2002 KB SC Mustang GT - 430+ rwhp (sold at 39,000 miles)
2005 Stage IV SRT4 - 440+ whp (sold at 36,000 miles)
2008 Toyota Tacoma - stock (sold at 58,000 miles)
2012 Nissan SE-R - stock (sold at 14,000 miles)
2012 Nissan Titan - stock (sold at 11,000 miles)

Never had an internal engine related failure on any vehicle. Ever.

Did grenade the automatic transmission on the 'stang when it shifted into high gear at approximately 115 mph at WOT. Forgot to disable the overdrive before the race. OD was a known weakness on the Mustangs...and just couldn't handle the extra horsepower and torque of the KB blower.
 
Discussion starter · #15 · (Edited)
Dude those were babies...h*** most of the cars and trucks I've owned had more miles than your highest mileage listed when I bought 'em....and two to three times that when they went to meet their makers.

I'll stick to Lucas HDOS with Mobile 1 Synthetic in my rides.

I do however wish you luck with your experiment, anything that helps prolong the live of our rides is a good thing.

Thanks.

If I could've put 370,000 miles on the 2012 Titan that I bought in 2013...I guess I would of. Sorry that I only managed 11,000 miles. But I figured I'd get extra points for the 75,000 combined miles on a 500 flywheel HP Mustang (that only came from the factory with half that HP) and a Neon SRT4 4cyl making much higher boost levels than the factory turbo could ever put out. Big turbo Stage IV aftermarket turbo kit nearly doubled the boost level, and also managed to make 500 flywheel HP. Did UOA testing on the 2000 - 2008 vehicles. Not once did the tests show abnormal wear levels or anything out of the ordinary....sorry. But shared motorcycle engine/wet clutch lubrication isn't the same as a car. We'll see.

And about the PDF that I posted, FWIW...

" A Study of
Motorcycle
Oils
AMSOIL Power Sports Group
© March 2006, AMSOIL INC. "
 
Here are the results of a VOA to see how good (bad) the new oil looks:

OIL BRAND: Lucas

OIL TYPE: Semi-Synthetic Motorcycle
OIL GRADE: SAE 10W40 - JASO MA2

NUMBER
15954842

Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) <1
Chromium (Cr) <1
Lead (Pb) <1
Copper (Cu) <1
Tin (Sn) 1
Aluminium (Al) 2
Nickel (Ni) <1
Silver (Ag) <1
Titanium (Ti) <1
Vanadium (V) <1

Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 8
Sodium (Na) 5
Potassium (K) 6
Water (%) <0.05

Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 9
Calcium (Ca) 1948
Barium (Ba) <1
Phosphorus (P) 865
Zinc (Zn) 990
Molybdenum (Mo) <1
Boron (B) <5

Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 13.7
Viscosity (cSt 40C) 93.2

Physical / Chemical
Base Number (mgKOH/g) 6.8

I have also sent off a 20w50 new oil sample for analysis - Should have the test results soon. Curious to see how the UOA turns out, especially since these numbers almost don't seem too impressive.
 
Discussion starter · #21 · (Edited)
990 ppm of zinc, 865 ppm phosphorous is about 2/3 of the ZDDP package in Mobil 1...

Mobil 1 motorcycle oils offer a nominal zinc level of 1300 ppm and a nominal phosphorous level of 1200 ppm.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

Now that we're getting into laboratory analyses, we can finally have an adult discussion over which oil offers more protection.

Zinc and Phosphorous levels in the Lucas do have me a bit worried, since I believe an ideal ZDDP level for motorcycles is somewhere between 1,200 - 1,800 ppm. But the Lucas seems to perform fairly well in stress testing and UOA, in spite of the "weak" additive package. As long as wear metals are normal or below normal in the UOA, I see no problem with it.
 
Discussion starter · #23 · (Edited)
Lucas is snake oil.
Any company that will have you add a tackifier as an adpac to a gear box that relies on splashing the oil with the spinning crankshaft to reach the top of your engine is a crock.
I'm not using Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer - I'm using Lucas Motorcycle Semi-Synthetic Oil. I've never tested any used Lucas MC oil, but all of my UOA testing on cars/trucks using Lucas automotive synthetic oils have always had good test results.

BTW...would you consider Valvoline to be snake oil too? It wouldn't surprise me if the Valvoline oil treatment "stabilizer" was also capable of doing some gear crawling of its own.

 
Discussion starter · #26 · (Edited)
Here is the advertised TDS specs for the 10w40....

http://www.lucasoiloffroad.com/lucaspdf/TDS_Motorcycle_Semi-Syn-SAE_10W-40.pdf

And the 20w50.....

http://www.lucasoiloffroad.com/lucaspdf/TDS_Motorcycle_SAE_20W-50.pdf

The Lucas specs lack some of the specific details but you can compare the ''advertised'' viscosities to your own VOA results

It would be interesting to know the ''advertised'' TBN as well...

I can't see your links here at my work (Blocked by a "Sports and Recreation" filter), but I'm guessing the zinc value is 1,058ppm? Even at that, 1,058ppm seems a bit low for a MC oil.
 
Discussion starter · #29 · (Edited)
I use Mobil 1 15W50 and it offers better protection at $22.66/5qts @ Wally World.

Are you using the Shiite or the Sunni Blend Lucas?

Good price on the Mobil1 - I pay $25.05/5 qts Lucas 10W40 & $35.05/5 qts Lucas 20W50

My upcoming analysis will be a 20W50 VOA, followed up shortly thereafter by a 10W40 UOA. And I would welcome a Mobil 1 15W50 UOA showing its level of protection. Not sure if it would be a completely accurate comparison - would probably need C50's with similar mileages, riding conditions and OCI's to be fair. Still, any shared-sump UOA testing would be helpful.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
The link you posted above is more then a little outdated, here is the second edition from Amsoil. I do not currently use Amsoil, simply because I change so often But I have A LOT of respect for the company and may use their products should I ever go synthetic. Its the ONLY company that proves, using independent labs and INDUSTRY STANDARD tests, how well their oil performs instead of just BS marketing of almost EVERY other oil company out there.

For the record I still am a believer in conventional oil for motorcycles, for me personally, simply because I change by no later then 3000 miles and the FACT that SOME older motorcycle and auto engines had REAL valve wear problems using synthetic, interesting point isnt it?
If Amsoil made a conventional maybe I would buy it or if I rode more between changes maybe I would choose syn.

I have nothing against Synthetic except the overblown hype and narrow mindness, I love reading discussions on which oil is best instead of just ONE question, which oil shows the least wear in industry standard tests?

Anyway, I did use exclusively one of the oils in the Amsoil test on my Vstar 1300 and that oil is CONVENTIONAL Valvoline 20/50. Amsoil has two conventional oils in the test and Valvoline is one of them.

The Valvoline Conventional beats and matches MANY synthetics on the test where it matters to me, (wear numbers) and why I use it, its page number 13 in the test. Its also $4.00 a qt in Walmart.
Here is the test .... http://www.dualies.com/downloads/files/Oil Test Results - g2156.pdf

Again, I personally like conventional for me because I change so often, I do believe synthetic is more sturdy and can stay in longer until the recommended interval, BUT by no means, just because something is labeled synthetic does it mean it will be better preventing engine wear. That is 100% false and proven by Amsoils own industry standard tests.

Engine wear and gear wear is all I care about and you should too, ignore the hype that makes so many pay double and triple the price for oil based on smoke and mirrors. Its almost silly, BTW I just noticed in the wear test that the conventional Valvoline oil 20/50 oil wear numbers (page 13) are better then the Lucus too and the Valvoline blew away Lucus gear wear numbers on page 15. This is not a knock on Lucus, this is a knock on the public, buying like a herd of cattle a product that they think is better based on NO PROOF what so ever. I have also posted a glowing used oil test report on the Valvoline in 2013 (1300 vstar) on Bob is the oil guy.

Thanks for the update - seems like Lucas either does very well, or very poorly in some of the test results. Think I'll continue using Lucas and see how the detailed UOA looks.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
For sure, the UOA is a great tool to see how any oil runs in the real world on your bike, I would look forward to seeing it too, we are just looking at results from a 5 year old test and honestly think the biggest thing anyone can do is just change the oil on time, except for tests everything else is useless except what makes your ride feel the best to you, formulations change and can vary from batch to batch I guess.

I could swear that when I first started using Lucas oil (automotive) many years ago I saw some UOA results that were causing all sorts of negative comments about the low zinc levels in the oil, until someone pointed out that the low zinc was just fine...since the Boron level was so high. For the last 10+ years, I don't recall ever seeing the same high levels of Boron in the UOA that I've had done.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
Simply,

oil doesnt matter.

~BullsEye Link Removed~



I use good lubricants and change them often. I am a modern guy and have never seen an oil related engine failure of any type in any machine. Have never changed the oil in my 20 year old lawn mower...

That being said, I do use some Lucas products and they are unique. In vintage BMW and Ural bikes they use slingers and splashers. Lucas oil additive gobs up oil so it sticks to components. Just what the doctor ordered for diesel or boxer splasher engines.

Lucas is, well, ahem oil. If you change your oil at recommended intervals, you have a higher probability of something causing excessive engine wear.

Good luck with your experiment. Treated correctly and not spun up so hard, the motor will last.

I think the "Study" of motorcycle oil testing that have been posted show such a wide range of test results that I can't just say "oil is oil" and believe it. No more than I would think that one tire is just as good as the next. I might believe that all oil is equal in quality, but only when it's still 5,000 feet below the surface.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
Let me poke one tiny hole in your balloon.... I used the best oil in my C50 (Mobil 1 4t full synthetic). It provided the best LABORATORY tested additive package and I changed my oil religiously every 3000 miles. At the end of the day, it was ineffective at preventing not one, but TWO Suzuki engines from self destructing internally. My LS650 bit the dust a shade under 31,000 miles. My C50 in the mid 38,000 mile range. Neither bike was ridden excessively hard, neglected or abused. The oil selection did NOTHING to keep the engines from dying a premature death.

So, what did I learn? That oil is oil is oil. The marketing behind brands is all hype, to convince the consumer to part with their hard earned dollars faster. As such, I buy whatever is on sale. Brand is unimportant. Because at the end of the day, NOTHING can prevent internal engine wear. No matter how good the advertising campaign....
"It provided the best LABORATORY tested additive package" ...for what, your bike, or a Silverwing scooter?

Sounds like you didn't do any UOA testing?...just assumed that Mobil 1 4t full synthetic was "the best" - I've seen actual tear-downs of "the best" when used exclusively in Honda Gold Wings and was amazed at just how much "goo" was hiding inside the engines. Not all oil is the same. Fact. Not all oils will have the same test results in all applications. Fact. UOA do show above average wear levels and offer suggestions to correct the problem. Fact. Just because you averaged a paltry 34,500 miles on your engines doesn't mean that others didn't go 80,000 miles, using a different brand of oil BTW, it doesn't mean my C50 won't self-destruct at 30,000...or won't make it past 90,000 miles. Just me, but after my first bike died a premature death, I think I would have switched brands. Thanks for sharing your experience though. I appreciate the information - perhaps I should refrain from so many 85-90mph commutes, since it appears that your engine failed under less strenuous conditions.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
....huge tolerances call for thicker lube...thick gooey stuff that sticks to the cylinder walls also cushions parts from slapping against each other as hard.

Think that's what is meant by the phrase "More cushion for the pushin"
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
Date sampled: 09/28/2014
Severity: Normal
Problem Code: --
UIN 01C5D1E (New Oil)

OIL BRAND: Lucas
OIL TYPE: Synthetic Motorcycle
OIL GRADE: SAE 20W50 - JASO MA2
LAB NUMBER 42020572445

Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) <1
Chromium (Cr) <1
Lead (Pb) <1
Copper (Cu) <1
Tin (Sn) <1 <1
Aluminium (Al) 2
Nickel (Ni) <1
Silver (Ag) <1
Titanium (Ti) <1
Vanadium (V) <1

Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 8
Sodium (Na) 2
Potassium (K) <5
Water (%) <0.05

Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 2
Calcium (Ca) 1971
Barium (Ba) <1
Phosphorus (P) 874
Zinc (Zn) 989
Molybdenum (Mo) <1
Boron (B) <5

Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 22.1
Viscosity (cSt 40C) 140.9

Physical / Chemical
Base Number (mgKOH/g) 6.4

DIAGNOSIS
New oil. Diagnosis not applicable.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
The problem with the engine is NOT the oil people use. It is the design. Upper cylinder lubrication is a chronic problem with many of the Suzuki small displacement cruisers. Why?


And that's exactly why I stated at the very beginning of this thread that I would be using Lucas Fuel treatment/Upper cylinder lubricant at every fuel fill up.
 
Discussion starter · #57 ·
Thank you for explaining what hurt your engine. I have heard piston slap on the 805 V twin, not on mine. I have to wonder about how this varied through time with different production runs. Especially if that type of variation was present in other areas of the engine then widely disparate engine life could be achieved.

I'm actually surprised how quiet the engine is on mine. I can hear the valve train very clearly, but get no particular piston slap that I can detect. I can't even tell that I get any additional chain noise compared to what it was at 10,000 miles. Maybe I got lucky.

The only issues I have had were with Rotella synthetic, which sucked through somewhere fairly rapidly, and with the last batch of Rotella non-synthetic, which led to lots of noise everywhere and almost no friction zone. So I'm off Rotella.

I may - just may - get slight oil consumption with longer Interstate runs. Using Repsol now. I like their vertical integration concept.

Pretty much describes my (quiet) engine too. Maybe 2012 was a good year for engines - not sure what year yours is.
 
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