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I know I am late to this party, I really need to come on the web site more often.

The box for the MSF course is exactly 20 wide by 60 long.

Its really easy; head up, squeeze the rear brake and use the throttle to keep the bike up right and turn your head as far as you can without pain, really, try to look like the exorcist.

When I RiderCoach, my partner does the box and he can cruise around like a summer day in a figure 8 on a gold wing. Rear brake, throttle, turn the head keep it up.

I have never liked the box but do it OK.

IMHO states should require an on street test and the box for someone to get a license. low speed control is where new riders get into trouble and create insurance claims.
 

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What I don't understand it while it will certainly improve your slow speed skills, do you or would you ever use this? I can't think of a single time in all the years I have ridden that I needed to do the maneuvers they require you do EVER! Seems to me if a cop saw you driving like that on a normal street you would be arrested for drunken or reckless driving.

Just my thoughts.
Marty
 

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What I don't understand it while it will certainly improve your slow speed skills, do you or would you ever use this? I can't think of a single time in all the years I have ridden that I needed to do the maneuvers they require you do EVER! Seems to me if a cop saw you driving like that on a normal street you would be arrested for drunken or reckless driving.

Just my thoughts.
Marty
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The "complete maneuvers" are the compiled partial maneuvers used every day in navigating parking lots, dead end turnarounds and other sometimes unexpected low speed motorcycle manipulations that pop up from time to time.

The "complete maneuvers" are not an end unto themselves although they do give confidence and bragging rights...

Practicing the complete maneuvers consistently will make the individual parts of the maneuver second nature to your riding skill and fine tune your clutch and brake application as well as your body position that is so crucial to making the turns successfully.

Some people will assimilate these individual parts of the skill much easier than others and for some, all that is required is an afternoon brush up session at the beginning of each riding season, in a church parking lot somewhere.


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What I don't understand it while it will certainly improve your slow speed skills, do you or would you ever use this? I can't think of a single time in all the years I have ridden that I needed to do the maneuvers they require you do EVER! Seems to me if a cop saw you driving like that on a normal street you would be arrested for drunken or reckless driving.

Just my thoughts.
Marty
I can do the figure 8 box from the MSF course with room to spare. What I've noticed from my riding group is that I'm also the only person who never duck walks their bike into a parking spot and one of the few who has never dropped their bike when trying to maneuver it through one. You may not use the skills, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be.
 

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The motorcycle is more agile than most people's brains allow it to be.
I guarantee that this guy never duck walks his bike.....



 

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What I don't understand it while it will certainly improve your slow speed skills, do you or would you ever use this? I can't think of a single time in all the years I have ridden that I needed to do the maneuvers they require you do EVER! Seems to me if a cop saw you driving like that on a normal street you would be arrested for drunken or reckless driving.

Just my thoughts.
Marty
That's easy. understanding how to keep the bike upright at low speed is the only way to really learn to keep it upright at high speed. learning to avoid stuff by maneuver and how to handle a machine that's unbalanced a bit (low speed unbalances the machine, is the key to really keen riding skills.

You show me a guy that can ride a bike like nobodies business and I'll show you a guy that doesn't put his feet on the ground on pavement until the bike stops. Balance and control and maneuver are what separates the men form the boys. and the bruised and dented bikes from the unbruied and dented bikes.

It isn't per se the maneuver, it is the technique used. back brake and throttle will keep your bike upright without using the clutch and burning it up, use your head to guide your bike and someday it will help you avoid a big bump, or perhaps a fracture or broken bike.

One of my favorite things to do is make an annual trip to see one of my favorite stunt riders at a local dealer. He is very friendly and spends a lot of time teaching basic riding skills to the customers via low speed maneuver.

Not to mention you don't look like a yutz in a parking lot when you know how to ride a motorcycle instead of walking it around.
 

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The motorcycle is more agile than most people's brains allow it to be.
What made me learn was watching a YouTube video. I don't remember exactly where I found it, but it was a tiny little girl, barely 5 feet tall and 90 pounds soaking wet riding a C50 in a parking lot. This little girl was scraping pegs and dancing that bike all over the place. When I saw that I realized that my C50 was far more capable than I thought it was so I started practicing. No way I was going to let that girl show me up! :D

I think I owe that girl a beer if I ever met her.
 

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That's easy. understanding how to keep the bike upright at low speed is the only way to really learn to keep it upright at high speed. learning to avoid stuff by maneuver and how to handle a machine that's unbalanced a bit (low speed unbalances the machine, is the key to really keen riding skills.

You show me a guy that can ride a bike like nobodies business and I'll show you a guy that doesn't put his feet on the ground on pavement until the bike stops. Balance and control and maneuver are what separates the men form the boys. and the bruised and dented bikes from the unbruied and dented bikes.

It isn't per se the maneuver, it is the technique used. back brake and throttle will keep your bike upright without using the clutch and burning it up, use your head to guide your bike and someday it will help you avoid a big bump, or perhaps a fracture or broken bike.

One of my favorite things to do is make an annual trip to see one of my favorite stunt riders at a local dealer. He is very friendly and spends a lot of time teaching basic riding skills to the customers via low speed maneuver.

Not to mention you don't look like a yutz in a parking lot when you know how to ride a motorcycle instead of walking it around.
I just watched that video, and there is no way that I could do what that cop did. But I doubt that 90+% could either. I don't duck walk my bike around parking lots, and only put my feet down when I come to a stop....MOSTLY. Sometimes I get a little out of kilter from time to time as I am sure everybody does. I also have physical limitations that would never allow me to be a best of the best rider, I have no hearing in one ear, and only 30% in the other, which screws with my equilibrium I have NEVER had the best of balance because of it. Where others could do a 360 dive at the pool, if I attempted it, I would have no idea where I was after a partial way through. But then again, and as I said, I would never need to do those maneuvers ever. But you are also totally right about letting your brain ride the bike, if I over think a tight maneuver I do it poorly, if I just do it without thinking it is no big deal. And I don't ride as good some days as I do other days. I am also sure that is the same for most of us. Just my thoughts.

Marty
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I would love to see this video if you could find it. I have unlimited respect to peeps who have time and patience to perfect there skills.
 

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I've got to get better at low speed u turns and figure 8s with the Boulevard. It's low center of gravity throws me off. I rode on Idaho for 7 years on the street and another 10 before that on first bikes so I passed Idaho's course on a 883 Sportster no problem. Move to Washington. They required everyone under 25 to take the MSF course so I lost my endorsement. I kept riding regardless. I get stopped one day randomly (pulled a wheelie at a light taking off) and didn't have an endorsement and Washington had just passed a new law no endorsement we impound the bike. Officer was pleasant and said of I go home now and I don't see you till you have an endorsement ill let this slide. But if I catch you out again on the bike before that time I'll toss you in jail. So I took the state course.

Show up get stuck on a 150cc Honda Shadow. Smallest bike I had ridden since my 90cc dirt bike. Figured it would be a cinch on this tiny thing. Boy was I wrong. I had picked up so many bad habits in 12 years of riding I just about failed. I could not do the figure 8 for the life of me on that bike. It was I'll handling it stumbled at low throttle and they refused to let me adjust the rear shocks. I was 200+ at that time and I was totally bottomed out. Then during the final test where we basically had to do a long sweeping corner to show head control (look to the end of the turn) the bike stumbled and he said I lifted on the throttle. I passed by one point.

So I pass the written have my license finally hop on my R100RT the following weekend to go back to the mall backlog where the test was and the figure 8 painted on the blacktop. I caught the next class at lunch and I see my instructor and I ask can I show you I know how to ride and last week was a fluke? He bet me $20 I could not manuver my bike thru the course. I won that $20. He was speechless. I was able to whip that bike in the 8 almost continuous. Did the rest basically all over again and got a 100%. He was blown away saying then why couldn't I pass it on a small bike. I had just gotten so used to bigger bikes and my first Street bike was an 883. I never rode my dirt bike on the street.

Just for laughs he gives me the chance to ride the same bike I had the week before and working one on one he found my issue with the smaller bike I needed to steer more, lean bike less and myself more. After about 15 minutes I was whipping that little Honda around pretty well.

Plus he did find the bike needed a new plug, and some one had adjusted the shocks to full soft so he apologized.

Moral here you can pick up bad habits learning on your own. Just don't be a hotshot on the MSF course unless you can back the claim. Lol. Plus no matter how skilled you are there is always room for more skills.

I'm.actually taking the advanced MSF course to get a break on insurance and to get a certificate saying I am an advanced rider. Just need to get more comfortable doing low speed again on the Boulevard. I just have to remember to swap my GMan floorboard pucks back to the stocks. I don't think they would like the light show.
 
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