Suzuki Volusia Forum banner

61 - 80 of 2195 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,859 Posts
I'm looking for a way to please everyone
Well I've been around here long enough to know THAT ain't going to happen. :lol: As far as the two C90 units on e-bay. They are sold by an outfit that sells take-off parts from trike conversions. They have a decent supply of these units and depending on the extent of modification necessary there would not be a large enough demand for gear sets to compete with a modifiable unit for $100. Personaly I would not be interested in this mod for myself as I spent $1000 on intake, exhaust, and fuel processor to give me some awesome low end grunt. To throw all that away with taller gears would make no sense. But I am still interested in the outcome. I am going to try and purchase a salvage M50 this weekend. If there is anything I can help with (measurements?) just let me know.
Viper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
789 Posts
I am beside myself with excitement over this proposed mod! When I bought this bike over an 800a Vulcan, the ONLY thing I was giving up was the ability to change out the drive ratio. My brother who has an 800a merely bought an after market sprocket for his rear and drastically changed it's highway manners. Like the Vol, it was very buzzy at normal highway speeds before; now he can run along at 80-85 w/out even breathing very hard. I would also like to submit this as an example of how the Vol, especially one that has had a some inexpensive HP mods, could easily handle the higher ratio. Our 2 bikes are pretty damn close in weight, HP etc, and I can still pull him at the line, but on the highway or back road riding, he blows my freaking doors off now.... The ONLY place I have him now is directly off the line, and I have no interest in drag racing. Any other time, he can just drop a gear and match me for acceleration, and with the different ratio, he can hold it in gear longer before shifting. I didn't mean to be so wordy, but I fervently support the idea behind this mod!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,347 Posts
I like 1, 2, 3 ,4, all I want is a slightly taller 5th. Rear gear change will change all gears and I don't think you will be happy. I am learning to live with 5th, now I accelerate to 70 on the ramp in 4th and when I shift into 5th is feels like it is idling. I tended to shift too soon and almost lug the engine. But if you found a slightly taller 5th, I'd sure take a hard look at your mod. Price would not even be a big obstacle if it worked well. Clint
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,859 Posts
I stopped by the dealer today at lunch. Comparing the C90 drive gear to the C50 (just external observation), to me it doesn't look like they would interchange, but I didn't have a chance to take any measurements.
Viper
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,012 Posts
dhillis said:
Also, I've noticed some of your posts are quite antagonistic, which leads me to ask: Are you in or are you out? It seems that you may have some good knowledge and I would love to have your help if possible. However, if you are going to clog this thread with useless opinions, I respectfully ask you to stop responding to this thread.
Dan
Ouch! Antagonistic/Worthless opinions indeed - you might note that I try to reference reputable and informed sources where possible - as in a few posts earlier.

The problem that I see with a lot of these gearing threads is that so many appear to be overlooking the fact that the gearing was figured out by real automotive engineers at Suzuki. If you just want to do something like lower the revs at highway cruising speeds - fine - but don't herald it as some kind of wonderful improvement because you will turn the bike into a dog when power is needed. You would be shifting down every time you caught a backdraft from a semi. Your basic misunderstanding in the various reasonings you have given is that you are talking torque when you should be talking power.

Highlightening errors in reasoning is not negative but constructive. I WANT to see someone do this mod and report on it. In this vein I recomend that anyone interested in attempting this gearing modification talk to Boston Gear at 888.999.9860 about matching bevel or spiral bevel gears for this application. If you could get a pair of spiral bevel gears of the appropriate physical size and ratio you could then talk to a local machine shop about switching the two gears out. If you get Boston Gears catalog it has the dimensions and ratios of all their gears and will be indispensible to anyone attempting this mod
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,859 Posts
472viper said:
I stopped by the dealer today at lunch. Comparing the C90 drive gear to the C50 (just external observation), to me it doesn't look like they would interchange, but I didn't have a chance to take any measurements.
Viper
However, comparing the two on microfische
C50
http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0325/propeller_shaft_-_final_drive_gear/propeller_shaft_-_final_drive_gear.cfm?man=su&groupid=13190&parent=13180

C90
http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0368/final_drive_gear/final_drive_gear.cfm?man=su&groupid=13290&parent=13280

I am struck by the similarity of the internal components

Cost however is $770 for a set of gears
http://www.ronayers.com/browseparts.cfm?searchstring=27300-10810
Viper
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,859 Posts
CycleBiker said:
dhillis said:
Also, I've noticed some of your posts are quite antagonistic, which leads me to ask: Are you in or are you out? It seems that you may have some good knowledge and I would love to have your help if possible. However, if you are going to clog this thread with useless opinions, I respectfully ask you to stop responding to this thread.
Dan
Ouch! Antagonistic/Worthless opinions indeed - you might note that I try to reference reputable and informed sources where possible - as in a few posts earlier.

The problem that I see with a lot of these gearing threads is that so many appear to be overlooking the fact that the gearing was figured out by real automotive engineers at Suzuki. If you just want to do something like lower the revs at highway cruising speeds - fine - but don't herald it as some kind of wonderful improvement because you will turn the bike into a dog when power is needed. You would be shifting down every time you caught a backdraft from a semi. Your basic misunderstanding in the various reasonings you have given is that you are talking torque when you should be talking power.

Highlightening errors in reasoning is not negative but constructive. I WANT to see someone do this mod and report on it. In this vein I recomend that anyone interested in attempting this gearing modification talk to Boston Gear at 888.999.9860 about matching bevel or spiral bevel gears for this application. If you could get a pair of spiral bevel gears of the appropriate physical size and ratio you could then talk to a local machine shop about switching the two gears out. If you get Boston Gears catalog it has the dimensions and ratios of all their gears and will be indispensible to anyone attempting this mod
Well look at it this way, it is still better than 15 different threads piss'en and moan'en over who got sent to "time out" and did he deserve to be there.
:lol:
Viper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
I think there is a lot of thought going into this....and I can't wait to see if it works. I would gladly give up a little off the line quickness for lower rpms at high speed (or really any speed...depending on the gear). My only request is that you take a lot of pictures when you assemble everything....and try to document it well. I think there will be several people from this board attempting to duplicate this mod. Gear on.....and please keep us updated. For the naysayers.....I really can't understand why anyone would discourage someone from trying something with their own bike. This mod isn't going to hurt anyone..... Quit giving the guy a hard time. I wish there was a way I could help in some way. I'll be checking this discussion often, so please continue to keep us informed of the progress. I think that at this point....more opinions to the contrary of this mod really aren't needed....and could be discussed an another thread...It'd be be nice if this one could be reserved for progress updates or constructive additional info (as 75% of the posts already are....)

Thanks for trying this, and thanks for keeping us in the loop of your progress. Good luck in your endevour, and thanks for your service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts
Discussion Starter #71
WOW, the only research I haven't done is knowing to put my flame suit on when I propose an idea that would benefit an entire biking community (well, besides a few).

472viper, I think with your low end mods, a taller gear would probably be a great fit. Also, lets compare apples to apples... Primarily, what kind of riding do you do? I do almost all highway, and because of your low end grunt mods, I will assume you do mostly in town/light highway and country roads. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's hard enough as it is, without the undue criticism. I appreciate your willingness to help, even if not interested in a gear swap.


kaitiff, I believe you are correct in that this little 800 and has loads of low end grunt, so why would Suzuki gear as a high revver? Who knows, but I like you comparison and sincerly wish that this bike had a sprocket drive right now.

Clintoysterwood, with the proposed gear change, you are only looking at a 12% difference in RPM's across the board. Not a big difference and likely to keep the bike in its power curve longer actually.

CycleBiker, you're a tough ol' cat, but I like it. I call it how I see it, and I felt that a few of your opinions were in an effort to undermine my will to succeed. As far as engineering talk, I do not claim to be by any stretch of the imagination. However, in years past, I went to school for high performance technology and I have studied everything there is to study on building and setting up various types of racing machines. During those studies, I have learned quite a bit about engine characteristics, gearing and power band issues. These have been applied in various projects of mine, and though some have been a pain in the rear, I have found a way to get what I want out of the machine. Also, I have not in any way heralded this project as the fix to all that ails you. I have done the research, it is only a matter of principle now. But on that note, this mod will not turn the 800 into a dog. It's not like I'm going from low gears at Bristol's 1/2 mile to Daytona's 2 mile tall gears. This is a slight reduction in RPM, which (I believe) will accomodate my needs at highway cruising speeds. As far as the gear manufacturing, I appeciate your info. But you type like I didn't think of these things already?

The c50/c90 drive and driven bevel gears won't swap because of differences in shaft thickness. I was also at the dealer today picking up something and examined both bikes. I'm working on it :wink:

Dan
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,012 Posts
dhillis said:
The c50/c90 drive and driven bevel gears won't swap because of differences in shaft thickness. I was also at the dealer today picking up something and examined both bikes. I'm working on it :wink:
Dan
Wouldn't turning or grinding the shaft be the easy part as long as the gears will fit the housing. I think you need to find the gears to fit the housing and then look at shaft attachment.
Do you know if these are straight bevel gears or helical bevel gears? If you like I can fax you the pages from my old boston gear catalog - it has the exact dimensions of the relevant gears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Can't wait to see how this turns out. Good Luck, I am pulling for you. If this works, I would very much like to do this to mine as well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,859 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,859 Posts
472viper, I think with your low end mods, a taller gear would probably be a great fit. Also, lets compare apples to apples... Primarily, what kind of riding do you do? I do almost all highway, and because of your low end grunt mods, I will assume you do mostly in town/light highway and country roads. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's hard enough as it is, without the undue criticism. I appreciate your willingness to help, even if not interested in a gear swap.
I do a daily interstate commute of 26 miles one way. I go to lunch, (usualy in the city). Weekends and days off I go out "riding around", superslab, two lane black top and winding country roads. Quite a bit of "two up". Very little if any stop light to stop light cruising. My longest "iron butt was just over 750 miles in a day. It is unfortunate you took my statement that this mod would not be for me as "undo criticism". The statement stands for itself, I would not be interested in doing the mod, (personaly) but that doesn't make it a dumb idea. I think you took my comment about a 2.66:1 ratio making the bike a dog as criticism, it isn't, it is my opinion and I know alittle about gear ratio's myself. You think you may have found a way to achieve your rpm "max torgue" with a 3.05:1. That ratio sounds better to me, if you were to achieve that ratio I believe the bike would not be as "doggy" as if it had a 2.66:1. Please don't take that as criticism, it's just my opinion based on some racing I did myself back in the 70's (that's 1970's). You raise some very interesting possibilities. Try and develope a little thicker skin, I hope we both stick around this site for a long time and continue to exchange ideas. But just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm criticising you.
I'll shut up now and continue to follow this thread.
Viper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
CycleBiker, I've got a couple different routes right now. One of them is modifying the c90 rear drive. When I receive it, I will take the c50 and c90 drives to the machine shop and see what happens. The other route is the elementary stages of development for a ring/pinion set from a leading gear manufacturer... we will see where that goes. They need a diagram of gear dimensions that I need to draw up for them, then they will look at it and give me a price per unit and the amount of time to manufacture.

472viper, I'm sorry you took my post the wrong way, or should I say, I wrote it the wrong way. I work midnight shift and I've been king of groggy lately (no sleep). I meant that some of the posts with criticism bothered me because 9 out of 10 people want something like this and I felt the negative comments weren't going to help us. I will admit that I get a bit feisty when I don't sleep much.

Dan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,859 Posts
dhillis, it's all good. Get some some sleep lad!! There's people counting on you. With the right calculations I believe you are on to something good, I just hope the machining doesn't push the cost too high.
Viper
 
61 - 80 of 2195 Posts
Top