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Discussion Starter #21
treebeme, I thought it was, but I figured I would ask just in case you weren't sure what I was attempting to get from this...

On to the task at hand, I am going to try to break this down the best I can so that the non-gear minded folks can understand this...

On both the c50/vl800 and the c90/vl1500, the drivetrain is identical and setup in this order: engine>transmission>secondary drive gear>final drive gear.

The easiest way to modify the final drive ratio is changing the rear differential gears, here's why:

The secondary drive gear reduces the transmission speed to the final drive gear: The c50's secondary drive gear is 17/15 or 1.333, the c90's is 19/19 or 1.

The rear diff (ring and pinion gears) on the c50 is 34/11 or 3.09, the c90 is 32/12 or 2.666.

To find the final drive ratio, you must multiply the secondary drive gear ratio x the rear diff ratio:

c50: 1.133*3.09= 3.503 final drive ratio
c90: 1*2.666= 2.666

hybrid drive (c50 secondary drive/c90 final drive): 1.133*2.666= 3.02

WHOA! That's what I wanted in the first place!

Changing the secondary drive gear on the machine would be expensive (over $700) and harder, that's why I would be using the c90's rear diff.

I will now need to talk to a Suzuki service tech and make sure the c50/c90 rear diff are the same size which I believe they are.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Cyclebiker,

The simple answer to your question is this: an internal combustion engine is most efficient at max torque. Torque is defined as force*distance. An engine is then most efficient at max torque because that is when it can produce the most force in a distance... this is where MPG's come in to play, miles would be considered the distance that the force would have to travel.

For more information read this:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/fpte.htm

Dan
 

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Interesting subject! I'll be keen to learn the results! I find the C50T pretty well geared for our roads and for two-up riding, which is why I bought it. With my wife on pillion it has just enough "get-up-and-go" for top gear overtaking. Over here, you need instant grunt as passing room is often short and unless one has changed down early in anticipation, it's usually a case of "twist and go!" Plenty of hills, too, and I'm lazy and like to ride it like it's an automatic...

Having said that, our last long ride with four other bikes was at average speeds of 70+ topping at about 90mph, all two-up - and while I still tend to give the shifter that last flick to confirm I'm in top, the bike is fine at these speeds. I used to check the Katana was in top, too, at times, so maybe it's just a case of familiarity.

I describe the C50T as a "busy little twin", but it's smooth enough and relaxed enough that I really enjoy riding it anywhere. It's getting better and better as the miles get up, too. Up to about 2500km now.
 

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Hmm? with all of that knowledge, I would have thought you would have taken a test ride and may have figured out that the 50ci would not meet your
needs. That being said I admire your tenacity. I would like a taller gear ratio on my c50. I will solve it with the C109 when and if it comes out.
GOOD LUCK
 

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The gear stuff may as well have been in spanish. HOWEVER, i do think the C50 could used different gearing but even at high RPM's i find that my C50 really gets up an goes. There really isn't any leveling off at interstate speeds trying to pass someone.
 

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big ed said:
First, welcome aboard!

Second, unless you are a bonafide gearhead I wouldn't do that. Besides the hassle (unless you are a tinkerer) the bike needs that ratio for roll on power at cruising speed. Hook that tall gear to that 50 cubic in. motor and you'll be kicking it down a gear just to change lanes. The VL800 just is what it is, an 805cc bike. I personally think the Suzuki engineers got the most out of it with the OEM set up. And it don't hurt it to wind it up because it takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.

That said, if you are hell-bent on doing this I will be following your progress with much interest! Good luck!
As one should have to down shift to pass or pick up speed quickly when cruising at highway speeds. This is why so many want a 6th gear you should not still be pulling in top gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
wesdalton, I did take a test ride and researched bikes thoroughly before making my decision to purchase. However, money is an object to me and I don't have lots of it, like most people shopping the 800 class. Don't be confused with my objective, I love the bike and find it comfortable at most any speed. However, I would like to consider 5th gear as my cruising gear, not a passing gear.

It should also be noted that I have the c50T, which is the touring bike. The 800 class has not familiarized itself with touring "yet", but I predict it will be a very attractive concept for the price conscious buyer. I also predict that Suzuki and the other manufacturers catering to mid size engine touring bikes will either add a 6th gear or make a taller rear gear in the future.

On the subject of passing, how many cars/trucks have a low enough overdrive to make a quick pass on the highway? I have driven none, except for my Chevy Duramax pickup, which pulls VERY hard in 5th. However, most vehicles if automatic drop a gear when the throttle is punched, or if a manual, the operator drops a gear and hammers down. In a "quick pass" highway scenario, it takes me all of .5 seconds to drop a gear and git er' done.

I am not trying to start an argument with people, but I would be confident in saying that most c50/vl800 owners would prefer a 6th gear/taller rear drive if available.

Also, I offer this as a suggestion for folks with a tachometer. If you commute quite often, if applicable, I challenge you to cruise at 3500RPM whenever possible. After a tank of fuel, compare your MPG's to what you would typically get if not in the neighborhood of 3500 RPM's. My experience has been exceptional fuel mileage at max torque RPM.

Dan
 

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There's no need to make it personal and attack why he didn't test drive the bike first or any other jabs. He bought a bike that was good for him, and now he wants to make it perfect for him. Let's sit back and learn something here. 8)
 

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maddogsvolusia said:
There's no need to make it personal and attack why he didn't test drive the bike first or any other jabs. He bought a bike that was good for him, and now he wants to make it perfect for him. Let's sit back and learn something here. 8)
exactly! just another mod. no different than risers, floor boards or pipes.
 

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thebigbry said:
As one should have to down shift to pass or pick up speed quickly when cruising at highway speeds. This is why so many want a 6th gear you should not still be pulling in top gear.
Um, ok.
 

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Welcome! As a C50T owner and long distance rider myself I am very much interested in your project. I wish you success. I wonder if my boss would notice his rear drive missing in the morning. He doesn't ride his C90T that much anyway. :lol:
 

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Go Dan GO

Dan
If you have read any of my posts, you have seen that I too would like a TALLER 5th gear..

Starnge this comes up as I am looking at ether a C90 or a Vulcan 1600.

I wish I could keep the C50 but the high revs on the Highway drives me crazzy. There is just no reason for it.

I had a YZF600R inline 4 - I changed the sprokets to reduce the RPM by 500 on the highway - wow what a diffrence, dropped below the buzz RPM it was great.

I to was thinking 3500 rpm at 60 - 65 was the sweet spot.
Not sure if you know about this link but it my help out with the math

http://www.gadgetjq.com/vulcan_speed_rpmcheck.htm

If some mfg would make a Ring and Pinion I would pay allot for it.

Its a great looking bike and I get so many people saying how sweet it looks.

And to top it all off, im going to take a BIG hit trading this thing in.

I too would rather do a down shift to make a quick pass or climb a steep hill than listen to that motor screem on the highway.

I also run the highway every day to and from work. And everyday I hit the shifter thinking im in 4th, but no luck its 5th and its BUZZY....

HOW CAN I HELP
Rob
 

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There was a gent here back a year or so ago who had a machinist who could/would make a new ring and pinion set for the C50. He asked how many pers would be interested in a set (more sets=less cost). I haven't heard anything lately but it would be a "GREAT" $500-$600 mod if worked out. I think I would jump on it just because less RPM equals less wear.
 

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maddogsvolusia said:
There's no need to make it personal and attack why he didn't test drive the bike first or any other jabs. He bought a bike that was good for him, and now he wants to make it perfect for him. Let's sit back and learn something here. 8)
:cry: Not a jab at all. I wish him all the luck and hope he can find what makes it work for him. I think we all know there is not a perfect bike. The C50 is as close as I could find for me. I set the perameters for me when I purchased the C50. First I would give the edge to A HD being american made and all. Second Liquid Cooling. Third Shaft drive. Fourth Fuel Injected. Fifth as close to 500 lbs as I could get. Now you know why I ended up with the C50. In my case the money wasn't in the criteria. Now after 4K miles the weight has moved up to as close to 700 lbs as I can find. I can live with a belt drive (but I prefer not to). It has still got to be Liquid cooled and fuel injected. Unless I am missing something It seems like a C109 (if it becomes available). I like the cruiser look. I will keep the C50 just because I own it and love to ride it. 90% of my riding are short jonts after work just to unwind from another shi**t day in paradise.
But every now and then I will go for a longer ride and would like the larger CI bike. I would like a Victory, but they still just have to be a HD clone and need to update their technology. Sorry I have been rambling on.
I do love the C50 and don't regret for a minute buying it.
 

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Thats is VERY CORRECT

Duffy

You are very correct.

I would be very interested in this if we could find this guy.

It would be a great mod.....

And it would make me a VERY HAPPY C50SE owner....

Rob
 
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