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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
People continue to ask the question, " Should I remap, or use a after market processor after intake and exhaust modifications. I copied and pasted this from other posts in hope to help people understand that most modifications do not require a after market processor.

The map is like a program, some maps come on computer chips and can be swaped for different performance needs. Yes the map which is on the 32 bit computer processor can be upgraded with the box. This is if you want to override the factor map. The factory map tells your bike how to run under different conditions. If you want to add the box you can. But the system on the C50 will adjust for simple mods like the air intake filter and the exhaust. The box would be cost effective only if extreme engine changes were made. Like I said before, bored cylinder, over size cam etc. You could use the box to map outside the factor map and dump more fuel is what the box would most likely be used for. Only thing about the yoshi box is when it is set and dyno is complete the user is limited. If it's high performance and you want to change the factory map and tell the sensors on the bike to adjust different under different conditions. Then the aftermarket is the way to go. Dump excessive amounts of fuel and tell the timing to advance or retard and do all kinds of other things for kick a** push the bikes balls to the wall. Then put the cheapest processor on. Cobra is a good one. Cobra can only make your bike rich. It will not allow you to go leaner than the factory map. Others on the market let you go either way. If you wanted a race bike then you should have save the money you spent on the processor and not bought the C50. Its a bad a** cruiser. But it's not a race bike. Putting money in the C50 to boost the fuel out put and performance is a waist of money to me. My oppinion of course. If you want to switch it up and play with more power once in a while then buy the processor and play a little. But don't buy it because you feel the factory map can't handle the little exhaust or intake change you might give it. People got hung on the processor thing because of those who dream about being the fastest. Someone once said, "There aren't any sensors in the fi system that measures air/fuel ratio." If you take off your tank and look on the thottle you can find 2 sensors, easy to spot with the electrical wire running to them. These are the same sensors your factory service manual tells you about. This is a intake port sensor. It tells the computer, or map how much air is going in, the computer map knows how much fuel it is dumping because it is mapped for eack sensor under the most extreme conditions, from full throttle to idle, from 20 below to 120 deg...... Its not a O2 sensor it works on different maps and different principles. No intake air sensor does not work as well as a O2 sensor, but if you add a after market processor it still will not act like a O2 sensor. Just another map. Everything works together acording to the map and the condition changes in the sensors. The butter flys you see on the top of your throttle body, rpms and engine temperature and engine timing along with........ all work together to talk to the map which the map changes the fuel. So it can not be said that the fuel mixture will not or does not change, or can not be changed by the map. When you first start your bike, all the sensors tell the map your engine is cold and makes the necesary adjustments to the sensors. Maybe the engine timing, or it may dump more fuel it the cylinders. Cutting-edge 3D-mapped 32 bit digital ignition system enhance the big V-Twin. A map is nothing more than a road map, if you will, with cells determining positions or addresses on the map. It is really a table or a chart. Load and throttle position are the two key ingredients here for determining when the spark plug goes off and, this is combined with the amount of air and gas sent into the combustion chamber. Each throttle position from closed to wide open has a cell of its own. More correctly, each cell indicates a load position in conjunction with each throttle position. Load is how hard the engine is working. For example riding up a hill has a different engine load than relaxed highway cruising. These cells determine the air-gas requirements and let the spark plug know when to fire to ignite the air-gas mixture. All controlled by the map.
I’ll explain these terms. They are quite simple really, The sensors and maps that are part and parcel of the modern engine management system give information to a computer to determine timing and how much gas relative to air is injected into the cylinders. This manages optimum power in conjunction with reduced environmentally harmful emissions. Sensors pick up operating conditions from various parts of the bike and feed this information into an onboard computer that has a map. Like I said some can be swaped for different performance needs. Various names such as an ignition control module. In Harley-ese, riders call this the “brain”. Your bike may have some or all of the following sensors for; measuring your bike’s speed, throttle position, oil pressure, intake manifold temperature and air pressure, engine temperature, crankshaft position, cam position and a sensor that monitors barometric pressure. Humidity, Barometric Pressure & Horsepower Why all the temperature and barometric sensor stuff? This is extremely important for horsepower as well as emissions. Take humidity, as an example in Toronto, just north of Lake Ontario does not have consistent humidity. This can play havoc with horsepower. High humidity air has more oxygen than low humidity air. Toronto can have 80% humidity, with blue skies in the morning and drop to 20% a few hours later in the afternoon. It is usually colder in the morning also and hotter in the afternoon. Anybody who flies knows that takeoff and landing is much easier in the cold because the air is denser than in the heat. Cooler weather with high humidity will result in more horsepower because of more oxygen in the air. Conversely higher temperatures with less humidity will result in less horsepower in the same bike. The sensors read local weather conditions as they affect your bike; the “brain” interprets them and sends the signals to instantly tune the fuel delivery and spark plug ignition settings. We are going to discuss trading horse power for fuel economy. Depends on which one you want. With the rising cost of fuel, you can probably guess what I will choose.

The C50 32 bit system incorporates all the components I mentioned and which was repeated. To say the map can not adjust air/ fuel ratio is to say the bike will run like a old time push lawn mower. The map adjusts the lean or rich condition based on the info sent from the sensors. air-fuel ratio is controled by electromagnetic valve which has been set in the map Sensors detecting throttle possition, temperature, air intake...... each sensor provides a signal. Each trigger has different values, and delivers different amounts of fuel. The duty ratio of fuel delivery will be less at idle than at full throttle. Same with air intake. When the trigger sends the correct value to the computer for incressed air intake, the map reads the value and uses the set value for increasing, or decreasing the fuel delivery. The predetermined value has parameters. The values are set in the map. When you modify the FI system beyond it's set parimeters then the map would have to be reset. I can only speak from experience when I say my modifications did not exceed the set values of the map. The factory map can not be changed by the average joe. With the right equiptment , or after market processor you can over ride the factory map and tell it to increase fuel or decrease fuel along with other tasks.... What happens when modifications exceed the set values. The fuel delivery can be on the lean side. Depending on the modifications, the predetermines values set in the map can not go low or high enough to correct for a lean, or rich condition. A good example would be air intake modification. Increase the avalible air intake and exceed the map values, then the values for fuel delivery do not match the higher values of air delivery. The fuel delivery will be limited to the highest or lowest value. The end value will not increase the fuel delivery past the set value. A good example is speed sensors. On some vehicles when the speed reaches 99 mph, the map does not know values beyond 99. The map does not have 3 digits and can go no farther. So what happens is the speed will not indicate after the set value. In some cases the engine will lack fuel or electrical signals and stop running. I had a 95 ford pick up which turned off at 99 mph. The map did not know how to operate beyond the set parameters. I modified my C50 by increasing the air intake with the K&N filter, I increased the exhaust amount and took off the pair valve. Simple modifications. On most bikes this would cause a lean condition. A good example would be a engine with a carburetor. We all know you will have to change the jets. The jets can't change by their self. The 2005 C50 never reached the end of the map values with the simple modifications I did. I have the dyno print outs and the print out of the values with in its parameters from Idle to wide a** open. A quick throttle response from idle, with a up hill max load put the values close to the end of it's parameter, but never reached the end. The map was always able to deliver the proper amount of fuel for the correct fuel air ratio. The bike never went too lean because of the added air intake. I only have the test results from 2 C50 engines. One bike was a 2006 and mine is a 2005. We found the same to be true with both bikes. We also found the same with a 2006 C90. The C90 stayed inside the parameters with a K&n add on. I just rebuit a 1968 BSA fire bird scrambler 650 from the inside out. I added electronic ignition and a fuel injection system. Crude is the injection, because I have only a intake air sensor and a throttle sensor. No one has designed a map for this, but I have. It was done with the bike on a dyno. I had to program values and parameters. It adjust fuel delivery and works great. If you want a unit which is capable of map switching. User Tune: You can change the Parameters such as ignition, fuel, boost, rev limit and idle speed. If you want more fuel delivery then the factory set parameters then remap. I get 60 miles per gallon, and I am happy with the performance of the stock map. After market add ons and a fuel processor will not increase your horse power enough that you will greatly feel it. Like I said before the C50 is not a race bike. If you want a race bike, save your money don't buy a processor. But a different bike. In my experience the C50 and C90 parameters did not have to be remaped for a lean condition after exhaust and intake modification. If anyone would like the test result i can have my secretary fax them to you.
 

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:shades: This is what I have been telling the boys here. They all think that I need the fuel processor. I say no. I don't have your skills :cry: but I can tell when an engine runs lean or rich. My C50 runs great with what little I have done. I find that it runs rich now and then. Fuel milage is 50 +. If I don't hot rod around. Thanks for the information :wayhappy: You just confermed what I always thought :? ( I didn't know) about the C50's engine manament system... Thanks for the info :shades: scruffy...
 

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woow, thats a lot of typing right there.

if you make any change to the air intake, you need to remap, rejet to be able to get the benefit of changing the air intake. its as simple as that. if you dont, you are just spending useless money when you buy a k&n or the like. i think its crazy to spend 300-500 on pipes, then 100-200 on air intake and then not remap/rejet to get the benefit. the reason for spending the money on those items is to get the most out of the motor.
 

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The stock C50's map is programed for oem intake and exhaust. It will adjust for changes in temperature, altitude and air density. Yes it has built in parameters (low side high side). But these parameters are for the different conditions the system will encounter with oem equipment. Those parameters do not compensate for aftermarket modifications. Installing a K&N filter in a stock air box allows the engine to draw air easier, it does not allow the engine to draw more air. Measured in cubic feet per minute, after market air box's make a larger volume of air available to the engine.
BOC502005 test indicated a K&N filter in a stock air box (if I'm reading that right) "put the values close to the end of the parameters". It stands to reason then that an aftermarket air box/filter that increases CFM would exceed the parameters of the stock map. Think of aftermarket fuel processors as fuel injection system tuners. You pulled those puny 1 1/8 exhaust pipes and allowed the engine to easily expell spent gasses. You've replace that football with something that make alot more air available. More air in and less restriction getting rid of it, a processor will let you dump a little more fuel in and make more power. Enough so you will feel the difference when you turn the throttle. Race bike? Never!! Fuel economy? Not the way to go. But it will give you a little boost in torque and throttle response will be crisper. Do you need it to keep from burning up your valves? Have your dealer stick an exhaust gas analyser up the tailpipe and see what the readings are.
Viper
 

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FI PROCESSOR FOR A TRAMP?

Hello All,

I read with interest the various discussions on FI aftermarket processors, but could use some help regarding an 05 Tramp conversion of a C-50. No mods other than a K&N filter in the stock box. The Lehman kit is IMO a pretty big Mod to the little putter-sparken 800cc. The added weight of axle etc., with my 230+ lbs and toss on the spousal unit once in awhile and I feel like I'm abusing the system big time! I am 2nd owner. Only about 8K showing on the clock.

Any thoughts on whether a FI processor would help ease the load or make load easier for the motor to handle? I'm not overly concerned about efficiency (fuel mileage), but would like to give the engine its best shot at dealing with the loads. I want to keep it going for a long time. Perhaps I should add that I seldom run on the super-slab. Most time is spent on county & state roads. Seldom over 60-65 mph.

BTW -- I really enjoy the info and data offered thru this forum.

Thanks

Dan
 

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Re: FI PROCESSOR FOR A TRAMP?

Checkout what the GMan says about his processor and K&N mod. He states increased HP. torque and even possible MPG once you get over the power improvement thing. :shock: I am still waiting on that day myself. 8) http://www.gmanindustries.com/


05TRAMPRIDER said:
Hello All,

I read with interest the various discussions on FI aftermarket processors, but could use some help regarding an 05 Tramp conversion of a C-50. No mods other than a K&N filter in the stock box. The Lehman kit is IMO a pretty big Mod to the little putter-sparken 800cc. The added weight of axle etc., with my 230+ lbs and toss on the spousal unit once in awhile and I feel like I'm abusing the system big time! I am 2nd owner. Only about 8K showing on the clock.

Any thoughts on whether a FI processor would help ease the load or make load easier for the motor to handle? I'm not overly concerned about efficiency (fuel mileage), but would like to give the engine its best shot at dealing with the loads. I want to keep it going for a long time. Perhaps I should add that I seldom run on the super-slab. Most time is spent on county & state roads. Seldom over 60-65 mph.

BTW -- I really enjoy the info and data offered thru this forum.

Thanks

Dan
 

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I'll offer an opinion, and that's all it is, my opinion, I don't have any experience with the trike. I would suspect whoever at Leahman selected the the C50, considered the power to weight ratio of the finished product when the said "yeah, this'll work. They would'nt pick somthing, or pursue something that couldn't handle what they are adding to it. I think the selection of an 800 cc platform for their trike is a testimate to the durability of the VL. The bike is pretty light to begin with, so it has some room to work with when you start adding weight. I've never ridden one, but I don't think you are "overworking" the engine. If you were they would have had problems with them by now. You can pump up the bottom end torque (and that's where you'll need it) with modifying the engine by letting it breath and then taking advantage of the added air. Pick an aftermarket air kit that will bring in more air. Thunder Air offers several styles as do Kuryakyn and others. Stock exhaust use 1 1/8" header pipes. You can greatly improve the engines ability to move burned gas by increasing the capcity of these pipes i.e. bigger diameter. There are dozens of choices on aftermarket pipes, HK, Cobra, Vance and Hines are the more popular. Common wisdom is that a 2 into 1 system develops a few more horsepower than some of the other styles. The whole idea is to increase the amount of air dumped into the combustion chamber and then expel the spent gasses as efficiently as possible. So now that you have improved the capacity of that air pump (that's what an engine is), now you can improve it's performance with a fuel processor (fi tuner). The three most popular are PowerCommander (PCIII) Cobra fi 2000r, and Techclusion. I won't go into the merit of each here. I suggest using the search engine on this site and read up on them all before choosing one. So more air in+increased capacity to remove spent air,+ added fuel by using a processor, you are going to make a few more horsepower (I think 8 is about the average). Doesn't seem like much but you'll be able to notice it and it will give you crisper throttle response. I think you could do it for $800 (installing it yourself). IMHO it is worth it for the improvement to how the bike responds. And this is about the most you can wring out of the C50. Pretty much anything else is pretty exotic and not very cost efficient. Hope all this rambling helps.
viper
 

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Just remember everything you read on the internet isn't always right or true..... Check it out yourself.

scruffy said:
:shades: This is what I have been telling the boys here. They all think that I need the fuel processor. I say no. I don't have your skills :cry: but I can tell when an engine runs lean or rich. My C50 runs great with what little I have done. I find that it runs rich now and then. Fuel milage is 50 +. If I don't hot rod around. Thanks for the information :wayhappy: You just confermed what I always thought :? ( I didn't know) about the C50's engine manament system... Thanks for the info :shades: scruffy...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This will have to be long and may take 30 minutes to type, but I don't want anyone to be misled into beleving they have to have a after market processor, or have to remap if they do a simple exhaust or air intake mod. I am refering to the Boulevard fuel injected models. If you change your exhaust, or intake to something smaller than stock then you will have problems which I will not address here. It would not make sence to down size with no benefits.
I have to agree with v01rider, if you are changing exhaust and intake for high performance, then it does make good sence to not install a after market fuel processor. Dump a little more fuel in the engine and get a little beter acceleration and power. I have not found that there is a large increase in power, or torque. I can say that the difference is a little smoother acceleration. One of the links provided here shows the dyno reading provided by G man. Adding the after market processor only gave 3/4 foot pound of torque. That was changing to Cobra pipes and K&N filter and adding a processor. Thats a lot for the money for 3/4 more torque. You will not get much out of any engine by doing simple mods like intake and exhaust. Unless you are changing cams or boring cylinders..... None of which are fesible on the Boulevard. On the other hand, if you are changing pipes to get beter sound and help the engine run a little cooler because it can exaust beter, then you DO NOT need to change the map, or processor. If you change your air box for a beter look, as I did then you DO NOT have to remap. My bike does breath a little beter and looks 100% beter than the foot ball. I like that I can wash and clean my filter and will never have to spend another dime on high dollar OEM filters. I like my louder sound because others are less likely to run over me.

I guess the guestion now is why is it not necessary to change the map. First you have to understand how the electrical system works. The GSX-R-derived electronic fuel injection system features the Suzuki Dual Throttle ValveTM System (SDTV). The throttle body houses a Intake air pressure sensor The sensor produces following voltage. (0.5 V < or = sensor voltage < 4.85 V) It cost 161.00 to replace. Here is a link which shows a diagram break down of the C50 Suzuki throttle body and the presure sensor.

http://216.37.204.206/xtremepowersports/Suzuki_oem/SuzukiMC.asp?Type=13&A=272&B=11

Let me explain how the sensor works. If you look at the picture you can see the pressure sensor has a tube which runs to it. This tube runs from the pressure sensor to the throttle body. This picks up the pressure reading in the throttle body. There are different types of pressure sensors. (MAF) Mass air flow, (MAP) manifold air pressure, (IAP) intake air pressure. IAP sensor is what you see in the picture if you went to the link. IAP is the sensor used on the Boulevard. What is the difference between the sensors. Vacuum is the difference between the absolute pressures of the intake manifold. Vacuum is a "gauge" pressure, since gauges by nature measures a pressure difference, not an absolute pressure. The engine fundamentally responds to air mass, not vacuum, and absolute pressure is necessary to calculate mass.
The IAP which is on the Boulevard is a engine control apparatus which works through monitoring intake air pressure fluctuations. The opening of the intake valve is mechanically linked to the crankshaft position of the engine. When the intake valve opens it creates air pressure fluctuations in the air induction system of the engine. The control apparatus is configured to determine intake air pressure fluctuations indicative of an intake air event and thus a particular crankshaft position, and their corresponding period of the engine cycle. The controller then uses this information to determine crankshaft speed and position for the purpose of fuel injection and ignition timing of the engine. Simontainiously the atmospheric pressure is detected accurately without using an atmospheric pressure sensor. The atmospheric pressure is obtained by the intake air pressure sensor just before the inlet valve opens. This is on a complete different cicuit. Atmospheric helps for altitude change.

Now that we have discussed the pressure sensors and we understand that the Boulevard has the pressure sensor at the throttle body. The Suzuki Dual Throttle ValveTM System (SDTV) - maintains optimum air velocity in the intake tract for smooth low-to-mid rpm throttle response and high torque output. Fuel regulation is handled by the Engine Control Module. The ECM stores two, three-dimensional maps, one for low load and another for high load. Three main sensors send signals to the ECM to calculate “basic” fuel injection volume. The intake air pressure sensor measures intake air pressure and atmospheric pressure. The Crankshaft Position Sensor measures engine rpm or speed. The final basic FIS sensor is the Throttle Positioning Sensor, which determines how much the throttle is being applied. All this to change fuel delivery and fule mixture ratios.

I hope you read my last post about values and parameters and understand how they work. The values are set in the map. Parameters are tailored. There has to be a beginning and end, kind of like a volume knob on a radio. The person who engineered the radio decides the lowest volume level and the highest volume level. Think about your volume control on your computer desk top. The programer set the parameter and you can not go beyond those values.

Again we found that the simple air box change and the exhaust mod did not cause the values to reach the end of the parameters on the Boulevard C50 and C90. We removed all the baffles on the large stock pipes and only found that we needed to add some of them back to retain appropriate back pressure. We removed the stock air box and the intake boot. Again we did not exceed the parameters.

All this information can be easily found on the internet except our tests which show the dyno tests and parameter values. I can send you the tests, but this does not prove to anyone that our tests are correct. Based on the fact that I have a masters degree in electrical engineering does not prove anything either. I will not try to prove any of this material to anyone. It is all common sence and logic. Each person has to decide for their self what they can understand and If you want your bike to have a beter fuel curve after modification then add a after market processor. I recommend having a dyno test if you add a after market processor. You will get the most for your money if you have already decided to spend such a large amount of money for after market. Remember that the Boulevard was set from the factory to run rich. The map will continue to tell it to run on the rich side. If you choose the Cobra after market you can not lean the mixture with a Cobra. Cobra will only allow you to go richer. Most airbox and exhaust mods cause a lean condition. This did not happen with any of the Bullys we modified. They all adjusted right back to their rich state. Don't forget that valve adjustment on the C50 will play a big roll in plug reading and the proper combustion process. I had my valves set by a dealer the first time because of warranty issues. They set them all too tight and I had a lot of soot and black smoke coming out my tail pipe. Lots of things to consider. Take your time to read the plugs often and it will tell you a lot about how your engine is performing.

This is your Boulevard, coppied from the Suzuki web site:

32-bit ECM GSX-R-derived electronic fuel injection system features the Suzuki Dual Throttle ValveTM System provides precise control of ignition timing and multi-hole-type injectors ensuring quick startup and excellent drivability under all conditions

Fuel injection system receives input from gear position sensor, water temp. sensor, air temp. sensor and intake port sensors for efficient power delivery and better fuel economy

Fuel injection takes information from these
sensors:
-engine coolant temperature sensor
-crankshaft position sensor
-speed sensor
-atmospheric pressure sensor
-camshaft position sensor
-intake air pressure sensor
-intake air temperature sensor
-throttle position sensor,

Someone said "So does our bikes have a built in weatherstation" The answer is Atmospheric presure and air temperature have to do with the weather. Decide for yourself with common sense.

Concerning the Lehman kit trike. I think the C50 is a medium size engine for the weight of that trike. A C90 would have been more appropriate. Now since the money is spent and the horse is heavy, the only thing you
can do other than what 472viper recomended is to consider a cam and boring the engine with over size pistons. If the cost is fesible. You would have to do the work yourself to keep the cost down. You can send the cylinder off to be bored. I changed a cam and went with oversize pistons on my 68 firebird scrambler. Cost was around 350.00
You would have to do some research on the posibilities. I can tell you if the C50 is 2004 or eairlier it will not be a big deal. If it is 2005 or later with the fuel injection you will spend way too much money to do large engine mods. I am not sure if the cylinder walls would be thick enough for such a mod.
I feel the same as 472viper, you should not be over working the engine and it would be worth a try to do all the mods 472viper mentioned. You will have to use the after market processor to dump excessive fuel for more power. It will not be a lot but maybe noticable if everything is considered and planned for optimal performance.
 

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I am considering the Kury High Five airbox. I like the look of over the football ( tho it makes it easy to spot a zuki at a distance) . Just that for now, will the Fi Handle the change?

Will the rest hafta follow?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have seen the Kury High Five box on a Honda. I would guess it is availible for the Boulevard. The one on the Honda was round and had a K&N filter in it. If it is the same filter, I am sure it would give you a little more air flow. The intake port sensor will maintain optimum air velocity in the intake tract. Like I said before, we tested the bike with out a air box or filter and the map values did not exceed the parameters. You can add a processor and dump more fuel and feel a slight increase in power. But changing the air box on the Boulevards did not cause the bike to lean as it would most motorcycles.
The 32 bit ECM stores info from the sensors and adjusts well within the parameters to keep the fuel mixure set as it was from the factory. A good example of air change would be at Mount Mitchell. The highest point east of the Mississippi River. I took my Boulevard to the top of the mountain, to test and learn how the bike compensated for the air and pressure change. I design electrical systems for race cars and I am learning every chance I get. I have 3 service manual for the Boulevard and I have studied the system to optimize my performance. My mesurments and test were done on pressure in the throttle body and related atmospheric pressure. The intake port sensor reads, intake air pressure fluctuations indicative of an intake air event and thus a particular crankshaft position, and their corresponding period of the engine cycle. The controller then uses this information to determine crankshaft speed and position for the purpose of fuel injection and ignition timing of the engine. Simontainiously the atmospheric pressure is detected accurately.

If you do not have a service manual, go to the internet and there are thousands of web sites which describe the sensors found on the Boulevard 2005 and up. Engine coolant temperature sensor, crankshaft position, speed, atmospheric pressure, intake air pressure, intake air temperature, throttle position. The presure sensor which you can find in the intake is not to be mistaken as a oxygen sensor. Oxygen sensors work completly different from a pressure sensor. I will not go into how the Oxygen sensor works. The pressure sensor determines the amount of pressure in the throttle body and send the reading to the computer. The computer in turn assigns a value for many different functions. One of the functions is fuel delivery. The values are set, or programed in the map and the map has a different value for each occurrence. If the pressure is
X then the computer map assigns the programed amount of fuel for X.

We found the pressure, with no filter or box was assigned a value for optimal fuel delivery. This was done on a dyno and this information was accurate according to my experience. You may fing another Boulevard which will give different results. We received the same results on 2 C50 and 1 C90. All owned by people I know. This was a individual test and we did share our results with Suzuki.

The ECM controls various engine functions like fuel injection, ignition timing and idle speed control system. All these control are done based on data (like engine coolant temperature, throttle body pressure, crank position etc) received from various sensors.
The ECM also learns about the engine as we ride. The learning is actually a process that the ECM uses to track the tolerance changes of the sensors and actuators on the engine. The ECM stores these learned values in RAM so that it doesn't have to start from scratch the next time the engine is started.

The technical aspects of these components most likely will not be disscused in any service manual for the Boulevard. You will find all the components mentioned are in most service manuals. You can also find the parts at your local Suzuki dealer. The technical aspect of how each sensor works and its purpose can be found in various places on the internet, or your local library.

This below is you Boulevard according to the Suzuki web site. Copied and pasted. If you notice something here which I did not mention, It is all complicated and deep. But you can use common sense and logic to determine the Suzuki electrical system is capible of handleing a couple simple modifications like air intake and exhaust. It really does not take a scientist to understand.
Dual Throttle Valve System maintains optimum air velocity in the intake tract.

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Suzuki Boulevard C50

A Classic Cruiser With A Style Of Its Own.

The Boulevard C50 has the soul of a classic cruiser combined with V-twin performance that gives you a charge every time you twist the throttle. C50's V-twin powerplant is engineered for pure excitement. With strong low-end and mid-range torque, it accelerates hard from just above idle. Yet, thanks to its advanced engineering, it's incredibly smooth at highway cruising speeds.


Engine Features

• Fuel-injected, 50 cubic inch, eight-valve, liquid-cooled, 45 degree V-twin engine tuned for exceptional low rpm power and torque

• GSX-R-derived electronic fuel injection system features the Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve System (SDTV) - maintains optimum air velocity in the intake tract for smooth low-to-mid rpm throttle response and high torque output - includes Auto Fast Idle System (AFIS)

• 32-bit ECM provides precise control of ignition timing and multi-hole-type injectors ensuring quick startup and excellent driveability under all conditions

• Fuel injection system receives input from gear position sensor, water temp. sensor, air temp. sensor and intake port sensors for efficient power delivery and better fuel economy

• Crankshaft designed with 45° offset crank pins to reduce engine vibration without a counterbalancer for a more comfortable ride
 

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Good. I only want to change the airbox at this point. Mebbe when Dan gets the dual pipes in production. I will go that way.

The High five as It comes won't fit our bikes. An adapter from Thunder Air is needed.
 

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I have not read all of this stuff above. But, I installed a TCI box on my wife's C50 because it is cool to have a fuel management system you can adjust. But we left the 4 pots on OEM setting.

You notice we never have all this theoretical discussion about.......should I repaint my bike a custom color since it really doesn't make my bike go faster?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just saw a post from G Man and I miss quoted the increase in what I thought was tourque increase. So to correct thing this is from the other post on a different topic.

I never said that the processor changed the stock mapping. I just said that the map assigned different values for the cvhange in throttle body and atmosperic pressure giving the engine the fuel needed and not running it lean.
As far as 3/4 lbs torque I said that I was quoting from the web site link which he gave. I was quoting the bully C50 package. Here is what I read, I do appologize for the miss quote. I thought this said the package took it from 46.92 HP to 47.67

Quote from Q man site:
We’ve designed 'The Bully C50' for maximum HP/Torque/MPG’s as you can see by the Dyno Sheet. Actual dyno numbers could vary, which is why the percentage increase is important to note. The included Dyno Chart results were achieved on a ’07 C50 Stage 3 with Cobra Pipes, baffled and we netted 46.92 HP and 47.67ft/lbs Torque at the rear wheel. The Bully C50 not only increased the HP and Torque, but brought them up sooner in the power band and kept torque higher at redline than its stock peak numbers showed. Check out the Dyno Chart by clicking this image for a larger view. End Quote.

Yes I can see the torque increase and this would be noticable. I don't have the stock numbers in front of me, so I do not know the increase from stock. Which this all makes good sence if you dump more fuel you get more power.

The original discussion was not extra power, torque or Horse power. It was is a after market processor nesessary after air box and exhaust mods. , to keep the Boulevard from running lean. Our test show the bike did not run lean. I did say if you want more power then add the processor. I would have never guessed that the increase would be that much. I think stock is around Horsepower: 45.1 wheel horsepower
Torque: 45.7 (62 Nm) @ 4000 rpm according to Suzuki. So yes I do beleive this would be felt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This is the same thing I said, both C50 bikes we worked on ran very rich from the factory. After changing the air box to the hyper charger with a K&N filter they were still rich with very little change. When we removed debaffled the exhaust we lost back pressure and a lot of H/P and torque. So we added a baffle for back pressure and the H/p and torque went back to normal stock. With the C90 we found the same with the hypercharger. The bike continued to run a little on the lean side, but not leaner than it was from the factory. That is why I said over and over that I was refering to the Boulevard. I have not tested any other bikes, other than a Harley which we did not mention.
We found the same with the C90 when leaning the fuel with a after market controller. Only problem we had was we had a higher operating temperature. The combustion chamber temperature increased and we had tiny micro specs only seen with a magnifying glass. The specs were aluminum coming from the cylinder walls. We replaced the plugs with a colder plug and we still had problems. We returned the mixture closer to stock settings.
We build race car electrical systems and after working with Cobra found that their processor would not let us lean the C50. THe Cobra only allows you to go richer.
In school we learned that 14.7:1 is the perfect air to fuel ratio. 14.7 units of mass air to fuel. We know it is rare that an engine gets the perfect fuel/rato of 14.7. A number higher than 14.7 and you are too lean. This is why I said earlier if someone decided to add a after market controller I feel they should put it on a dyno. Back yard mechanics toy with air/fuel ration and end up trashing their engine. I guess if I decided to add the after market controller I would also add a air/fuel gauge. The wide band works the best. Any electrical engineer will with out doubt say do the right thing and install a gauge.
The G Man FI controller, on the fly why would someone not install a gauge.
We have never looked to get high performance from the C50 or the C90 we made tests on. We have been happy with stock, but the controller is a good investment. A great investment to get the ration almost dead on. The question was, is it nessesary to add a after market controller to keep the boulevard from running too lean. When we added the hypercharger we seen a increase in performance on the Boulevards with out running the bike lean. Like you said and I said earlier most bikes will run lean after doing intake and exhaust mods. The Boulevards factory map and sensors had no problem adjusting to our intake and exhaust mods. Except for when we took all the baffles out of the stock exhaust. We never ran leaner than what came from the factory, but we had no back pressure and it killed the performance.
I don't know how this all got started under the White plug topic. I started a while back trying to get it on a different topic. ( After market fuel processor or not )
I will transfer this info in hope that it helps people to understand and make the decision based on what they want from their bike. I agree a FI controller is a great investment, and I like the on the fly push button pad G Man sells. If I install one on my bike this is what I would use. I would make my own for a lot less, but if you don't know how then you have to pay for the knowledge and the work someone put in it.
I guess it comes down to, do you want your Boulevard to run run beter than stock. Do you want more power. Do you have the money only to dyno the bike, or to install a air/fuel gauge. What do you have the money for. I just don't want people to think they have to buy a fuel controller or remap the Boulevard if they change the intake and exhaust. It all depends on the individual. My Boulevard does a great job stock with exhaust and intake mods, and I am happy. Some may want a little more torque. Some may like a windshield and some may not. We all have to choose.
Bottom line is our test did not deem it necessary to add a After market fuel controller to bring the bike back to stock, or to keep it from running too lean after the exhaust and air intake mads. The elecrical components adjusted for stock performance. If you add a after market fuel controller, MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT RUN YOUR ENGINE TOO LEAN. Too lean will destroy your engine.
 

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Mort said:
I have not read all of this stuff above. But, I installed a TCI box on my wife's C50 because it is cool to have a fuel management system you can adjust. But we left the 4 pots on OEM setting.

You notice we never have all this theoretical discussion about.......should I repaint my bike a custom color since it really doesn't make my bike go faster?
The best part about a PCIII is when you hook it up to the computer and change the idle setting and the bike actually does it when you send the map. I'm working on a way to add a micro computer that records fuel flow against rpm. Need a flow reader though. Should'nt be to hard to install one.

Also,

Not sure if you knew this or not but Silver is the fastest color becasue of the amount of light reflected at certian wavelenghts. (i.e. less sunlight induced photoelectric drag). I've not researched whether or not the flames make a difference. :biglaugh:
 

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BJThompson said:
Mort said:
I have not read all of this stuff above. But, I installed a TCI box on my wife's C50 because it is cool to have a fuel management system you can adjust. But we left the 4 pots on OEM setting.

You notice we never have all this theoretical discussion about.......should I repaint my bike a custom color since it really doesn't make my bike go faster?
The best part about a PCIII is when you hook it up to the computer and change the idle setting and the bike actually does it when you send the map. I'm working on a way to add a micro computer that records fuel flow against rpm. Need a flow reader though. Should'nt be to hard to install one.

Also,

Not sure if you knew this or not but Silver is the fastest color becasue of the amount of light reflected at certian wavelenghts. (i.e. less sunlight induced photoelectric drag). I've not researched whether or not the flames make a difference. :biglaugh:
I wish my bike was all silver. It is silver and white so does that mean I am only half-ast?
 

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BJThompson said:
I'm working on a way to add a micro computer that records fuel flow against rpm. Need a flow reader though. Should'nt be to hard to install one.
There are marine guages that will measure the gallons/per/hour burning. A fuel sensor from them might work for you.
 

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Other FI controller units have no effect on idle that I know of. I would think that isn't needed in most cases.

BJThompson said:
The best part about a PCIII is when you hook it up to the computer and change the idle setting and the bike actually does it when you send the map.
 
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