10 Reasons to wear a helmet (preferably a full face one) - Page 3 - Suzuki Volusia Forums : Intruder Volusia and Boulevard Forum
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post #21 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 11:04 PM
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Ipartola....you say in Canada riders are 13 times more likely to die than car drivers and you said many do not wear helmets.
That's funny because my research says anywhere in Canada helmet wearing is mandatory for anyone OVER 18.
So, your stats may prove helmet use does not help in Canada.

The logic you use saying hey wearing the helmet is always a good idea and what good is reducing your chances by 40% if your face hits a guard rail?

Well, the same logic is used by non-bikers. They say hey it's always a good idea to not ride a motorcycle. What good is reducing your odds by using a helmet when you hit a tractor trailer at 60mph?

See, you choose to ignore that logic because you decide that no matter the facts ......this is a risk you will accept to take for your increased enjoyment and other benefits you get from riding your motorcycle.

Does that sound familiar?

See, we all do the same thing....the only difference is what amount of risk are we willing to manage for our enjoyment?

We are not so different. It's still a matter freedom and choice and managing the amount of risk we can tolerate.
I feel where I ride, when I ride, riding sober, straight and not at night and not at rush hour...I manage risk to my acceptable level.
You do the same, by choosing to ride a motorcycle at all as opposed to never riding because the facts clearly show you are way more at risk than a car driver.
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post #22 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 12:08 AM
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I found the link and I was mistaken on one fact: it’s not that many Canadian riders don’t wear a helmet, it’s that many don’t wear a full face helmet. I’ll let the numbers speak for themselves: https://fortnine.ca/en/how-dangerous-are-motorcycles/

The thing is that every study out there says that full face helmets do save lives in crashes. I fully believe in your right to choose to knowingly put yourself at risk. Principle one for me: everyone is free to screw up their own lives how they want. But let’s not pretend like in some situations not wearing a helmet is just as good as wearing one. We talk a lot about how there is no replacement for displacement, same with helmets. You can always make a bigger engine and you can always add more protective gear and it will always result in a safer ride. That’s why cars are safer than motorcycles and buildings are safer than cars: more protection. The only difference is that unlike driving a car, wearing a helmet has no downsides. Peer pressure is the only reason I can think but honestly those are the same people that will try to get you to stay longer so you can drink more with them before riding home.

You not wearing a helmet is 100% your right. I post this only so others can catch these stats and make an informed decision that’s right for them.
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post #23 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 01:21 AM
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Hurt report is really old and almost totally outdated. Driving has changed a lot since that report.
Sadly, over the last 2 weeks, I have sat in traffic on the freeway twice, only to see how a motorcycle lost in the apparent accident. Both times, it looked like the biker wasn't able to scrub off speed at 70+mph. Each person gets to make their own decisions that they are comfortable with making. I have my standard and worked hard to get gear that will work year around. Yep, my helmet probably saved my life or at the very least, saved my face (and wallet) from major reconstructive surgery.


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post #24 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 06:34 AM
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Ipartola....
I beg to differ. You said "But letís not pretend like in some situations not wearing a helmet is just as good as wearing one"

You are pretending that that statement is a true statement. It is not.
Real life true story...and I can provide you with an email address and a phone number of a real life person, if you wish.
My friend, Lenny, a long time rider, had a serious motorcycle accident about 9-10 months ago. He was riding home from VA hospital visit. Speed of travel approx. 45 mph. And a young car driver blew through a stop sign and struck Lenny. Lenny did not wear a helmet. He T-boned the rather large old car with his extremely tricked out and new Harley. Lenny ended up pinned between his bike and the windshield of the car and then bounced onto the pavement. Injuries included arm and legs contusions and road rash and a severely damaged spine. Lenny has recovered somewhat but will never be the same and probably never be able to work again. But Lenny had no head injuries at all. None. So, whether he rode with a helmet or not did not matter. So, that clearly proves your statement as false. In Lenny's real life case....not wearing a helmet was just as good as wearing one. Now don't attempt to defend your statement by saying ...oh that was one case. Your statement was all inclusive. And I'm sure this kind of accident is not the only one ever.
Now Lenny was largely the reason I started to ride again after many years of not riding. And to prove both your point and mine, Lenny 's advice today is 2 fold. 1) proving your point.....wear a helmet. And 2) proving my point.....do not ride a motorcycle.
Lenny has not ridden since and has no plans to ever ride again.
You can't make blanket statements and pronounce them as "fact" and use them to bolster your opinion. That really annoys me when anyone uses that tactic.....it hits me as someone pontificating.
No offense intended Ipartola......I know you are a good guy and I have enjoyed this spirited discussion.
I wish you all the best and tons of safe riding and joy.
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post #25 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 09:17 AM
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If you looked carefully at the helmets, you might notice that most of the damage is on the sides and face, not the top which the beanie helmets protect. To see percents, go to https://pages.uncc.edu/visualrhetori...mpact-diagram/ Remember to add up both pictures to get an accurate percentage.
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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 12:02 PM
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chromedome, I also enjoy this discussion

You'll probably consider this me mincing words, but that's not how risk assessment works. Think about it this way: every time you drive by a car crash on your motorcycle you in that moment are safer on your bike than the people in the car, right? Can you conclude from that that motorcycles are safer than cars? Of course not. You already accept that you are several times more likely to die on a motorcycle per 1000 miles than in a car. With that in mind, you don't need a helmet almost ever. The only time you actually need it is in a crash that involves your head hitting something. And you cannot predict when that will happen. That's what risk is: not knowing when a discrete bad situation will happen. Other examples: you don't need a spare tire in your car unless you get a flat. You don't need insurance until you crash. You don't need the police until someone steals your bike. You don't need water until you are thirsty and you don't need food until you are hungry.

Do you wear a seatbelt when you are in a car? If so, why? 99.999% of the time you don't need it. 99.999% of the time you are safe without it. Would you consider someone who drives without a seatbelt to be safer than someone who drives with a seatbelt? What about drunk drivers? Most drunk drivers do make it home, and those that don't often survive the crashes. Do you consider that safe behavior? If not, then we share the same definition of "safe", and by that logic yes wearing a helmet is always safer than not.

When it comes to motorcycle helmets, it seems there is some kind of different thought process that happens. Everyone I've talked to that rides a motorcycle, helmet or no, has no problem saying "I know I am more likely to die on a motorcycle than in a car. I accept that risk." But very few no helmet riders can say "I know I am more likely to die on a motorcycle without a helmet than with a helmet. I accept that risk." Instead it's usually some justification of why it's not a greater risk, and I can't figure out why. Nobody has a problem with it. We all take risks to various degrees and we all accept it. Why don't people think of helmets that way too?

Thanks for being a good sport about this conversation and stay safe out there!
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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 12:37 PM
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I've only ever crashed while wearing a helmet. I haven't crashed since I stopped wearing one.
It should be the individual rider's decision.


Riding is dangerous. Driving is dangerous. Sky diving is dangerous. SCUBA diving is dangerous. Being a bicycle courier in NYC is dangerous. Eating too many cheese burgers is dangerous. Smoking is dangerous. If you want safe, I'd say stay inside but you could always slip in the shower or someone could break in.
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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 12:37 PM
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I'll interject my $0.02 on this one, although you two seem to be doing fine on your own.

To me, it is as simple as this, I could quickly search and come up with a number of instances where a person in a motorcycle accident would have survived a crash if they had been wearing a helmet, or the injuries would have been less devastating, as in the case of Gary Busey. I would challenge someone to show me an instance where a rider would have survived an accident had they NOT been wearing a helmet. It's possible there may have been some oddball, one-off, final destination instances, but those would be very few and far between I suspect.

The simple takeaway on that is that wearing a helmet increases your safety while riding while not decreasing your safety.

If I told you I had an investment that could possibly give you a 2% return on your money but was guaranteed to not lose anything and you can pull the money out at any time, would you not toss in whatever money you didn't need at the time? You might not make anything off of it, but you wouldn't lose anything for the effort. That's the way I see helmets. There is no guarantee that there will ever be a return on that investment, and I truly hope that I don't get one, but if I'm not wearing it at the point that I need it, I am guaranteed to suffer a loss.

As for Lenny, no, a helmet wouldn't have made a difference for him, but there is a real likelihood that, at some point, while he was on that wild ride onto the hood of that car, if his head had moved 1mm further to the side, that story would have ended in a very different way. It's easy to point at an incident and say "See, wearing a helmet would have made no difference," but in doing so you are ignoring the fact that it was pure luck he didn't need the helmet and luck is always a poor gameplan to have.
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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 01:24 PM
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I like the points that both Whiskey and Paraquat make.
They do make sense.
I only went to my friend Lenny's example to prove the statement of Ipartola made as an absolute, was not an absolute.
Now all this being said....good points made by all sides.....I just came back from a nice, very hot ride in 92į temps.
If I had to wear a helmet in today's heat and humidity.....I would not ride. I would have stayed home.
But hot as it was.....I got in my needed wind therapy.
Ipartola...I often wonder why people never look at it this way......we are all gonna die. Nobody gets outta here alive. Wanna have a slight percentage of dying with a smile on your face.....or be sure to die in a hospital with tubes and wires and no smile?
Be well and everyone Ride Safe!
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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 01:31 PM
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Funny thing is that a good full face with proper ventilation is actually cooler in that 92-degree temp than not having one. I live in Georgia have ridden in the upper 90's and even low 100's with both a full face and a half-helmet. The full face was much more tolerable because I didn't have the sun beating down on me. Would you rather be standing in the sun on a 98-degree day or under the shade of a tree?

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