Passenger Comfort Guide - Peg swap/flip and floorboards

[Fast Freddy]

If you are riding two-up with the stock set-up, chances are very good that your passenger is uncomfortable and complaining. I see posts all the time on this site about this general issue. There are a lot of good posts from a lot of informed people that have addressed this issue in one way or another. I have tried to summarize their (along with my own) salient points in this post. All of the following information is presented to address the unalienable truth in the sayings, “If Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy!” and “Happy wife, happy life”.

THE PROBLEM:

The stock “Passenger Peg Mounting Bracket” (hereafter referred to as the PPMB) location on our cruiser mounts the pegs high, tight, and back on the bike (see Figure 1). Any of these positional attributes are not conducive to rider comfort. It’s very much like the peg position on a crotch rocket. Well, if you are riding for any length of time, your passenger will NOT like this stock position. It stretches the quadriceps muscles, places the tailbone closer to the seat surface, and locks their legs in one position. The problem is more pronounced for taller passengers (longer legs). Ideally the passenger should be positioned similar to sitting on a chair. The other problem is the passenger seat, but that’s covered in part 2 of this guide (still working on that).

Most bikes’ passenger peg locations are allocated in the space left over after the exhaust pipes are designed. If your ride has dual pipes (exiting on both sides of the rear wheel), they usually sit lower, leaving the bike designer a lot of room to mount the pegs lower on the frame. When you run with a typical over/under shotgun style set of pipes (like our stock pipes), passenger peg location is an afterthought by the manufacturer (i.e. wherever you can squeeze them in). If you have saddlebags, access to put your feet on the pegs gets even more ridiculous (see Figure 2).


Figure 1: Stock Passenger Peg Mounting Location (this happens to be my ’03 Volusia – day one)


Figure 2: Stock Peg Mounting Location shown with OEM Saddlebags (’07 C50T)

SOLUTION OPTIONS:

Therefore a logical solution will address the deficiencies of the stock peg location and therefore incorporate a method to move the foot position out, forward, down or any combination of these and allow the passenger to adjust leg positions while riding. There are a couple of options to consider:

1) Simply replace the stock pegs with passenger floorboards (generally just a smaller version of driver’s floorboards) in the stock mounting location. This allows the passenger to move their feet to other positions (slightly) to alleviate any discomfort temporarily by stretching their legs a little. This may help somewhat (especially for shorter passengers) but certainly isn’t the ultimate fix. The PPMB position really is the principal issue that needs to be addressed. There are many options to choose from. Cobra, Kuryakyn, Suzuki, and many others make a product that we can use. Make sure you get the right adapter to use these products with our PPMB. Please note that you should also pay attention to the look of the underside of the board, because that is very noticeable when you are riding solo (with the boards in the “UP” position). Some boards look pretty shabby underneath.

2) Move the peg position entirely (now you’re talking) and this can be done three ways.
a) Buy a third-party peg extender (see Figure 3). This provides an offset between the stock PPMB (in the stock location) and the peg. This moves the peg to a more favorable position. The top of the extender mounts in the stock PPMB. The pegs (or boards) mount to the bottom end of the extender. There are a variety of manufacturers to choose from (Grand Canyon and Highway Hawk are mentioned a lot as stand-alone products; you could also go with Kuryakyn offsets as part of their system or other options). Google it and you’ll find a lot of places to buy these products. Some examples below. I am not necessarily making any recommendations of these selected sites.
http://www.waynesvillecycle.com/footpeg_extensions.htm
http://www.chromeandleatherplus.com/store/product.php?productid=1926
http://www.kuryakyn.com/products.asp?bn=metric&ci=3253


Figure 3: Peg extender example

b) Fabricate something yourself. A select few have the skill, inclination, and equipment to do this. The big upside is you can design something specifically for your passenger’s dimensions, the pegs or boards you have, and your pipes.
c) Perform the PPMB swap. This originated some time ago and is cheap, easy, and fast – it’s one of the easier modifications you can do. There are two variations of this procedure to consider.
i) Peg Swap (see Figure 4). This is when you take the right peg mounting bracket and install it in the left location and vice versa (the PPMB orientation stays the same – i.e. hoop side up). This moves the pegs forward (about 2” – 2 ½”) and out (about 2” – depending on the spacer you choose) but keeps them at the same height. This is usually done for bikes with stock pipes (because of the minimal distance between the bracket and the height of the stock pipes).


Figure 4: Peg Swap

ii) Peg Flip (see Figure 5). This is when you keep the PPMB on its original side and flip the PPMB upside down. This moves the pegs forward and out (same as the Peg Swap) and also moves the pegs downward (about 3”). This is usually only possible with some aftermarket pipes that are lower than stock (i.e. the flipped PPMB may hit the stock pipes with this method). It also requires you to grind off the loops on the peg mounting bracket.


Figure 5: Peg Flip

PREPARATION AND PLANNING
Review the related posts on this site using the “SEARCH” function. There are numerous posts on this that I have read and at least one good .pdf (see link below); it’s somewhat brief but adequately describes the general concept.

http://webpages.charter.net/v0lusia/Extending%20Passenger%20Pegs.pdf

The posts mainly cover the peg swap option. I wanted to cover both options in more detail and add a lot of pictures to make this easy procedure even more foolproof.

So before you start:
a) figure out which of the two methods (peg swap or peg flip) you can use
b) buy the required materials

TOOLS AND HARDWARE:
1) Tools
a) 12mm and 13mm socket wrench
2) Hardware (see Figure 6).
a) 3/8"-16 X 1 3/4" hex coupling nuts. The 3/8" size is perfect because it just fits around the bolts. Please note the bolts don't screw into the coupling, they just fit inside like an arm in a sleeve. I like the stock silver color but you can paint yours if you prefer. Home Depot bin number 131206 (at least in Canada - it may be different in the US) - $1.19 CDN each.
b) M8 70mm long bolts with a 1.25 course thread. Home Depot bin number 135130 - $1.29 CDN each.
c) 8mm flat washers (just so the bolt heads don't dig into brackets and chew up the paint). Home Depot bin number 128558 - 9 cents CDN each.


Figure 6: Hardware List

INSTALLATION NOTES
1) The PPMB is secured with two mounting bolts (see Figure 7). The PPMB has a compound offset bend to locate the pegs to the rear and up from the bracket mounting point – two things you don’t want (see Figure . This is why there is a benefit by swapping or flipping. Instead of this compound offset working against you, you can make it work for you, if you change the way the PPMBs are mounted on the bike.
2) The lower frame cover, right in front of each bracket, is relatively thick (see Figure 9) so the bracket from the other side (peg swap) or flipped down (peg flip) can’t be bolted in without some sort of a stand-off to move the bracket away from the bike (to clear the front/outer face of the lower frame cover). This is why you need to have longer bolts and a way to stiffen these bolts (hex coupling nuts, gas pipe, or other materials have been used). The stiffening aspect is very important because of the added torque imposed on the mounting location when you offset the weight from the center of rotation (Torque=Force X Distance and Force=Mass X Acceleration).


Figure 7: PPMB mounting bolts


Figure 8: PPMB compound offset


Figure 9: Why a stand-off mounting is required (close-up of PPMB mounting location and lower frame cover thickness)

3) Most people have the stock black lower frame covers. The mounting of the stock lower frame cover doesn’t use the bolts for the peg mounting bracket (see Figure 10). So no issues. If you have the OEM chrome lower frame covers (you can see from some of the pictures, that I do), the top bolt of the peg mounting bracket is also used to secure the lower frame cover (see Figure 11). So keep in mind that this will affect the length of the bolts you use somewhat and some washers also (more on that later).


Figure 10: Stock lower frame covers


Figure 11: OEM Chrome lower frame covers

BASIC INSTALLATION PROCEDURE
Remove the stock peg mounting brackets:
The only tool you need is a 12mm socket wrench. Two bolts secure each peg mounting bracket. So all you really need to remember is “lefty loosey” (see Figure 7). The bolts screw into weld nuts on the frame so you don’t need to worry about them.


Figure 12 - Ready to go

Now you need to decide whether to do the Peg Swap or the Peg Flip procedure!

PEG SWAP PROCEDURE:
i) Install the right peg mounting bracket in the left location and vice versa. The orientation stays the same – i.e. hoop side up.
ii) Material Sequence – 1) hex coupling nut, 2) peg mounting bracket, 3) washer, 4) bolt (see Figure 13).
iii) Apply blue (medium strength) loctite to the end threads of the mounting bolt.
iv) CAUTION: The 70mm bolts are fine for the non-driveshaft side of the bike (plenty of clearance). On the driveshaft side of the bike, the clearance distance behind the PPMB weld studs to the driveshaft is minimal (see Figure 14) – especially if you have the bike lowered and/or a chrome driveshaft cover. So you don't want these bolts sticking out past the end of the weld stud. The trick is to test drive the bolts all the way in and use a little shaving mirror to count the number of threads that are sticking out on the back side of the weld stud. Back out both bolts and use a grinder with a cutoff wheel to remove the exact number of threads. This way the bolts will be the perfect length. Then reinstall the bolts. Be sure to use medium strength Loctite on the end bolt threads.


Figure 13 - installation order


Figure 14 - clearance to driveshaft

PEG FLIP PROCEDURE:
i) This is a little more involved but ultimately will be more rewarding because it gives all the benefits of the Peg Swap plus it will move the pegs about 3” lower.
ii) Remove the foot pegs from the mounting brackets. They are held on by a “C” clip (see Figure 15). Use a pair of needle nose pliers or you favorite tool of choice. Be careful to have a clean work area in case it pops out (also wear safety glasses).


Figure 15

c) Cut the “loop” out of the mounting brackets. As you will be flipping the PPMB upside down, the hoop to keep the peg in the up position is redundant and will interfere with your pipes (see Figure 16). I used an angle grinder. I figured I would round over all of the edges as well while I was at it.


Figure 16

d) Paint the PPMBs. I used a Tremclad black gloss spray bomb. Here are some parts painting tips I’ve used for years very effectively. For small parts, put them in a small cardboard box to easily paint it outside without any problems with overspray, keeps dust out, and make the parts portable immediately after painting (see Figure 17). Also instead of waiting for the parts to air dry, use a heat gun to speed the process (see Figure 1. We use a similar baking concept for painted parts at work, so I figured why not. It gives a great finish and is super fast. I painted these two brackets (three coats on both sides) in 20 minutes (see Figure 19). When the overspray paint on the bottom of the cardboard box from each coat is dry (no longer glossy), it’s time for the next coat.


Figure 17


Figure 18


Figure 19

e) Install the mounting brackets in the new orientation (see Figures 20a, b, and c.


Figure 20a


Figure 20b


Figure 20c

f) Reinstall the foot pegs or new floorboards. I bought Kuryakyn (part #7907) passenger floorboards (see Figures 21a and 21b) and Kuryakyn (part # 8802) Suzuki rear peg adapters (see Figure 22). Then reassembled the boards and adapters to the relocated PPMBs (see Figure 23a, b, c, and d).


Figure 21a


Figure 21b


Figure 22


Figure 23a


Figure 23b


Figure 23c


Figure 23d

g) This is what it turned out like:













If you're contemplating something like this, I hope this guide helps.


Safe Riding, Fast Freddy
_________________
Black '03 - courtesy of a Suzuki Factory Loan
Accessories - courtesy of the Children's College Fund
Next Up - Black C109

[Windblown]

Very nice write-up and with pics to make the job easier!! Great job, FastFreddy!! I bookmarked this so when Im ready to swap out my passenger pegs, Ill be ready to do the job.
_________________
"Energy and persistence conquers all things" - Benjamin Franklin

04' Blk Volusia

[spc1spc1]

nice job!

[472viper]

Probably the most thorough "how to" that's been posted here. I've wanted to do this for a long time, just never had the motivation, now I do.
..............now where'd I put those old peg mounts?..............
Viper
_________________
2006 M50 Bobber "Emma"
2007 1600 Kawasaki Classic
USAF 1973-1977
SoDak ANG 1977-2010

[Special Ed]

I went with peg extensions (as seen in your expanple 3) and Kury dually pegs for the back of mt 2003..
It took only a few minutes to remove the passenger pegs and put on the extensions.
My wife is short (5'2), but the stock position of the passenger pegs was too short. The peg extensions are awesome, and she is much more comfprtable.
_________________
-> Get Your Ride Bells Here <-



-> Check out my blog! www.ednelson.us/blog <-

[bikerdudec50t]

I did this mod (the swap) and found the floorboards to be unstable as the passenger is mounting and dismounting.With the spacers that long and just two of them,they tended to twist no matter how tight I put them.So as for my preference I will do the extensions,as soon as I decide which ones will work with the factory floorboards?
_________________
keith

[Fast Freddy]

[pac50t]

NICE POST! I've been following this for a while. And, I was concerned about stability also. I think that when I am ready to do this, I will use 1"x2" box tubing to make the spacers - much less flex in one solid piece of steel.
_________________
Some people think that they know. But, they don't know enough to know that they don't know.
http://www.volusiariders.com/viewtopic.php?t=51362
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=18075&id=1837353089&l=eeb1a3e8b5

[bikerdudec50t]

I used the 2"Also it didnt seem to help that there are rubber mounting washers that gave some play in the whole assembly.The twisting, at the 2" length even bent the bolts with a lot of mounting and dismounting on a long day of riding.
_________________
keith

[Fast Freddy]

[472viper]

[bikerdudec50t]

On the 06 Boulevard the actual mount itself has a rubber grommet and metal sleeve on the peg brackets where the mounting bolts pass through that is to help with vibration to the passenger.When this is all mounted up as you have shown,the amount of play at 2" out makes the floorboards give (and twist) a lot.
_________________
keith

[Fast Freddy]

[v01rider]

bookmarked. this is a great post!
_________________

[bikerdudec50t]

doesnt seem to be,not short of removing them in some way and having the holes welded and drilled back out to make them more solid.My wife only weighs around 140 and the bolts were bent when I removed them.This is a great idea,she loved the added leg room with the new position,but we were afraid they would break off on a trip and them she would have to make the ride home without anything to put her foot on so I just removed them untill I could figure something out with them.Good luck guys.
_________________
keith