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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 11:44 AM
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I understand that. My point is that nothing is ever "free". Just because the person who gets the healthcare doesn't pay for it, doesn't mean that others aren't. In situations like that, typically people earning more than $20k are having to pay more annually so others can have those "free" benefits. Hence, it's not really "free"...

That's one of the problems in the US, people with no or low income get "free" things so they say, when in actuality the people earning more are offsetting that balance for them. It's only free to them, but it comes out of someone else's pockets.

I suppose that you may have a point there. On the other hand it is like that with income taxes too. The more you make the higher your income taxes etc. I do not mind paying a bit more in order to benefit the poorer of our country. Some call that socialism. I call it caring for the needy. Do some take advantage of this type of system? No doubt. In a perfect world every citizen would pay their share, but that is not the way the real world operates lol. So, sometimes we have to take the bad with the good for the betterment of all. Take care.

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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 11:54 AM
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sometimes we have to take the bad with the good for the betterment of all. Take care.
Very well said.

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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 02:52 PM
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sometimes we have to take the bad with the good for the betterment of all
I agree to an extent. But at what point is anything ever put in place to control the abuse of that type of system? I believe the "betterment of all" is really just the "betterment of the lower-to-no income". Take the $20k baseline for instance, I don't see how it's a "betterment of all" if the people under $20k are the only ones to reap the benefits. That's my problem with Socialism in this regard. When I work 2 jobs to support my family, and barely get by, while many, many others do nothing yet have more than I do for "free". At some point people need to be cut off, or at least held accountable for their actions (or lack thereof). The ones who truly need the help, often can't get it. The ones who don't need it, get more than is necessary. Socialism "can" work, but it truly needs to be workable for all involved.

Sorry, didn't mean to get on a rant, the word "free" just always grabs attention
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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 10:33 AM
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Understand that the total cost may not be the total "insured" cost. The adjusted rates that insurance will pay are typically much lower, but are adjusted by law. I had a similar surgery and one night stay that was about the same cost however the "insured" cost was about $25k.


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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 01:24 PM
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I had hernia surgery about 4 years ago. Waiting time? about four weeks. In and out in about four hours. No charge whatsoever except a prescription for some pain pills. Never having to worry about a huge medical bill is worth more the one can imagine. Am retired now and only pay the first $100.00 for my prescriptions and after that a few dollars for any after that. Have not had any need yet and am 75. Feel very fortunate to have our Canadian healthcare. I pay about $900.00 a year base on my income. Anyone less then twenty thousand gets free healthcare. There is a lot to be said to have a healthcare plan like we Canadians have and am very thankful for it. Is it perfect? No, but then what is in life. I would not want to be without it for sure

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Universal Canadian Government provided Health Care verses the Universal American Private Insurance provided Health Care. I am willing to bet the Canadian Run Government provided Health Care provides similar or better Health care for a lot less money than our plan to use private insurers. The Republican Congress members felt a government insurance plan would be unfair with private insurers unable to compete with a government insurance plan. Daaaa.

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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 01:34 PM
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The ones who don't need it, get more than is necessary.
1) who decides "necessary" ?

2) what evidence do you have that those that don't need it are getting more than "necessary" ?

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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 07:59 PM
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1) who decides "necessary" ?

2) what evidence do you have that those that don't need it are getting more than "necessary" ?
Necessary help is when you "can't" do for yourself due to physical or mental condition. Unnecessary is when you refuse to do for yourself because you simply don't want to. Who decides what's necessary? Apparently no one in this country, as the free loaders have few limitations.

I have evidence in my family, as just one example. My 80yr old grandmother was approved a whopping $14/month for food stamps. She's unable to work due to physical limitations at her age. Her son pays her phone bill and helps with groceries. My sister however gets all her food, housing, and childcare needs for "free". She was taught how to manipulate the system by the same people who work for the system (at the whatever-place people apply for "free" things). She was told to keep her income under $20k/yr to continue receiving "free" things, but to still have a taxable income at end of year for tax returns. She works and quits 2-3 jobs a yr, stays well below her $20k limit, and still pulls in $7k in tax returns. Her "help" is unnecessary, says I and anyone else with common sense. People pretend folks like her are the exception, but they're not. That mentality has caused a shift in that ratio, and at no point is anything ever discussed to remedy the abuse. Jobs are harder to find now than they used to be for sure, but they're still out there. We had 4 positions available in our plant for 6 months due to lack of interest. Starting pay was $10-$14/hr, entry level. But why work when you can get things for "free" I guess...

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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 08:18 PM
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Necessary help is when you "can't" do for yourself due to physical or mental condition. Unnecessary is when you refuse to do for yourself because you simply don't want to. Who decides what's necessary? Apparently no one in this country, as the free loaders have few limitations.

I have evidence in my family, as just one example. My 80yr old grandmother was approved a whopping $14/month for food stamps. She's unable to work due to physical limitations at her age. Her son pays her phone bill and helps with groceries. My sister however gets all her food, housing, and childcare needs for "free". She was taught how to manipulate the system by the same people who work for the system (at the whatever-place people apply for "free" things). She was told to keep her income under $20k/yr to continue receiving "free" things, but to still have a taxable income at end of year for tax returns. She works and quits 2-3 jobs a yr, stays well below her $20k limit, and still pulls in $7k in tax returns. Her "help" is unnecessary, says I and anyone else with common sense. People pretend folks like her are the exception, but they're not. That mentality has caused a shift in that ratio, and at no point is anything ever discussed to remedy the abuse. Jobs are harder to find now than they used to be for sure, but they're still out there. We had 4 positions available in our plant for 6 months due to lack of interest. Starting pay was $10-$14/hr, entry level. But why work when you can get things for "free" I guess...

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Here is a list of what Alberta considers a disability.... I know two folks that are on the Aish program, one is depressed and the other I used to play hockey with is now an alcoholic. Alberta just increased their paycheck so, I assume the one can now drink some more.

The National Benefit Authority For The Disabled
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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 08:29 PM
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Here is a list of what Alberta considers a disability.... I know two folks that are on the Aish program, one is depressed and the other I used to play hockey with is now an alcoholic. Alberta just increased their paycheck so, I assume the one can now drink some more.

The National Benefit Authority For The Disabled
WOW! I wish there was such a list of disabilities for the US. It'd be similar, but you'd have to toss in "can't pass pi$$ test", "refuse to do sh**", and of course "love my pj's" as disabilities :p

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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 09:09 PM
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She works and quits 2-3 jobs a yr,
Report her.

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My sister however gets all her food, housing, and childcare needs for "free".
These are state administered programs. I don't know how it works in SC, but where I live it is not that easy and it doesn't pay that well.

There will always be those that will be satisfied with what little assistance does pay, and they will always be the ones you hear about.

I know just as many people who have been on assistance and got off of it just as soon as they were physically able. But nobody wants to talk about those folk.

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