2007 Boulevard with issues - Suzuki Volusia Forums : Intruder Volusia and Boulevard Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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2007 Boulevard with issues

Thanks again for any and all advise now and later. I have a recent to me Boulevard vl800 c50 fuel injected nightmare. Well honestly it ain't too bad. I got it with a fuel wash problem, so bad it sprays out the tailpipe ... not drip. Having Vance and Hines pipes it is the front cylinder with the issue. The bike started to be taken apart, the tank with pump ... pressure is good. The intake KNN taken out and the injector rail loosened. The injectors cycle and spray .... all seems fine with them. It is running a " the bully " programmer. The programmer was removed and run and replaced and run, didn't seem to affect much, still pouring gas out the tailpipe. The plugs were fuel soaked so they were replaced with factory plug NGK and the rear cylinder fires but black from trying to run the bike on the one cylinder. The front plug is so washed from fuel there is no fire. The wires snap the plugs hard, the old plugs the front one was weak spark I am guessing from the fuel wash. The compression is good 150 / 110 on both and that is a dry test even with all the fuel down the one hole.

So I am left with a harness and a computer and some sensors. I have no codes in the cluster, and upon testing for codes I have CHEC on display now and wont clear. I have read almost all the manual, the bulletins including the one for the CHEC light error and been lurking on here for about a week. The only time I have seen this symptom in the automotive world the computer was toast.

So any ideas?? I am frustrated and would just like to ride.

Thanks,

William
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:55 AM
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So, for the engine to operate, you need 4 things. Air, fuel, compression and spark.

First off the CHEC on the display is telling you there is a problem with a sensor. On the right side of the bike, remove the cover panel just below the saddle. There is a white plug (the dealer service plug). You can use a paper clip to jump the "dealer wires". Find the white connector beneath this cover. With the bike off, use the paper clip to short out the white/red striped wire and the black/white striped wire. Don't start the bike, just turn the ignition to on as you are watching the readout on the speedometer.

If your bike is stock and all is fine is should read only "C00".

Here are the codes from the service manual.

c00 none
c12 crankshaft positions sensor, pickup coil signal, signal generator
c13 intake air pressure sensor #2, for front cylinder
c14 throttle position sensor
c15 engine coolant temp sensor
c17 intake air pressure sensor #1 for rear cylinder
c21 intake air temp sensor
c23 tip over sensor
c24 ignition signal, coil #1 for rear cylinder
c25 ignition signal, coil #2 for front cylinder
c28 secondary throttle valve actuator
c29 secondary throttle valve position sensor
c31 gear position signal switch
c32 injector signal #1 for rear cylinder
c33 injector signal #2 for front cylinder
c41 fuel pump control system, fuel pump, fuel pump relay
c42 ignition switch signal, anti theft
c44 heated oxygen sensor
c49 pair control solenoid valve

This will at least tell you what electrical or sensor issue the computer is seeing.

The thing that stands out to me is you did a compression check and you got 150 from one cylinder and 110 psi from the second. Correct? If so, you have a serious compression issue. The service limit for the engine is 158 psi.

I would STRONGLY suggest running the compression test (on a warm engine) and take the readings again. If you have the same results, you are looking at a complete rebuild of the engine. It could be any number of reasons. Stuck or broken ring, worn cylinder, worn piston, burnt valve, broken valve. Or any combination of the above.

Once you have compression resolved, then it is a matter of air or spark. You can troubleshoot the spark issue by swapping plugs, wires and even coils to see if the problem remains on the front cylinder or if it moves with the component. If it continues, then it could be electrical (ECU) or other issue.

I really wish you luck with your bike. This does not sound like it is going to be easy to resolve.

Current Bikes ---->
- 1969 Indian MX125 -10-2009 to Present
- 2006 Star Virago - 05-2011 to Present
- 2014 Honda CTX1300 - 05-2015 to Present

Past Bikes -------->

-1973 Yamaha RD350
-1991 Harley Sportster 883 XL
-2000 Yamaha XV125
-2003 Piaggio Fly
-2004 Suzuki LS650
-2005 Boulevard C50 - 07-2008 to 5-2012
-2012 Vulcan 900 05-2012-05-2015
-2008 Yamaha FZ6 - 11-2008 to 04-2017t


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry when I posted the compression specs it is to read 150 / 150, I guess I hit the 1 once too many. Compression is even, the build of compression is even as well ... four strokes and it is at 150. The reading of codes, when the bike was running the F1 light flashed and read F1 on the display, then when I followed the procedure to check codes ... it only read CHEC and still reads it when tested. I may disconnect and reconnect the battery to reset. It reads like it has no codes, compression good, spark good ( was bad on one of the old plugs, the one that was in the bad hole) Where I lose touch with reality is all tests seem to report a healthy bike but the exhaust tells the truth. I can paint my garage door with the fuel coming from it, I would take a short video but just imagine water wisping off the exhaust in the rain, very similar. I still have the headache from the smell. Thanks for the help, I hope this helped straighten things out
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 09:06 AM
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If the CHEC is still in the display then the code is still there. You just didn't follow the procedure correctly to pull it. Since you say the spark is good, if I had to guess, you probably also have a faulty fuel injector and when you pull the code you will get a C33, which is a faulty signal from the fuel injector.

However.... The faulty fuel injector is the least of your problems.

Standard compression for a healthy C50 engine is 242-185 psi. The service limit is 156 psi. If your engine was warm and you still got the 150 psi reading, your engine is due for an overhaul.

2-22 from the service manual...

"Overhaul the engine in the following cases:
* Compression pressure in one of the cylinders is less than 900
kPa (9 kgf/cm2, 128 psi).
* The difference in compression pressure between any two cyl
inders is more than 200 kPa (2 kgf/cm2, 28 psi).
* All compression pressure readings are below 1 100 kPa (11
kgf/cm2, 156 psi) even when they measure more than 900 kPa
(9 kgf/cm2, 128 psi).

http://www.mikesbawx.org/wrenchingti...e%20Manual.pdf

best of luck.

Current Bikes ---->
- 1969 Indian MX125 -10-2009 to Present
- 2006 Star Virago - 05-2011 to Present
- 2014 Honda CTX1300 - 05-2015 to Present

Past Bikes -------->

-1973 Yamaha RD350
-1991 Harley Sportster 883 XL
-2000 Yamaha XV125
-2003 Piaggio Fly
-2004 Suzuki LS650
-2005 Boulevard C50 - 07-2008 to 5-2012
-2012 Vulcan 900 05-2012-05-2015
-2008 Yamaha FZ6 - 11-2008 to 04-2017t



Last edited by Skrapiron; 05-18-2017 at 11:46 AM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy

Okay so fully charged battery, WOT, oil in cylinders, cold engine and compression is 185+. I really can't run a hot test as it runs so poor. I am looking at the coils and wires thinking they are OE still. Spark is weaker from the coils now even on a full charge. It may be a matter of part replacing including coils, wires and injectors, after that I am unsure. With the FI light that came on yesterday today the codes are none (c00). Thoughts?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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This is a post exactly the same symptom but no resolution

Running on one cylinder

I also hear a high pitch whine when the key is on ... not running just sitting there

The secret of life ..... Just enjoy the ride
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulevard1974 View Post
This is a post exactly the same symptom but no resolution

Running on one cylinder

I also hear a high pitch whine when the key is on ... not running just sitting there
That thread kinda died when the original poster abandoned it....

With all that gas running out of the tail pipe there has to be fuel leaking into the cylinder from an injector.

I would have both injectors checked by a qualified injection shop.

That "high pitched whine" just might be your fuel pump that can not reach primed pressure because the injector is leaking.

second thing that you have indicated a concern about is the spark. Use this HEI spark tester on both coils/plug wires

When you look at the insulator - it should NOT have a center electrode, just a small hole in the center of the porcelin. That is to simulate the firing conditions/resistance of a running cylinder.

The ground clip is somewhat inconvenient to use in our application so us a jumper cable to ground the test plug when you are cranking the engine.

I'm not really sure if our bikes ignition system has the power to jump the HEI test plug gap but it should be close (there is a similar test plug for standard ignitions that has the metal center electrode that operates at lower voltages)

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7002456

The spark situation in the cylinder is also hampered by an overly rich mixture.

And lastly..... with all that fuel running through the engine, it is washing the oil off of the cylinder walls and some is likely ending up in your crankcase after causing extra cylinder/ring wear. The diluted oil is also not adequately lubeing your bearings and transmission either. Bottom line, change the oil before you reinstall the injectors.

Good luck with your search and do let us know what you find....
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
With all that gas running out of the tail pipe there has to be fuel leaking into the cylinder from an injector. Agreed with the front injector unplugged it still pukes out fuel, it ran fine for about 8 seconds at first then started slobbering so I unplugged the injector and it poured out

second thing that you have indicated a concern about is the spark. Use this HEI spark tester on both coils/plug wires

When you look at the insulator - it should NOT have a center electrode, just a small hole in the center of the porcelin. That is to simulate the firing conditions/resistance of a running cylinder.

The ground clip is somewhat inconvenient to use in our application so us a jumper cable to ground the test plug when you are cranking the engine.

I'm not really sure if our bikes ignition system has the power to jump the HEI test plug gap but it should be close (there is a similar test plug for standard ignitions that has the metal center electrode that operates at lower voltages)

I bought an adjustable tester and the spark is approx 27000 volts, the resistance on plug cap is 8000 the coils and wires is 18000 which maybe a little low. The injectors are 11.9 ohms and getting 12 volts so I am throwing my bet against the front injector


The spark situation in the cylinder is also hampered by an overly rich mixture.

And lastly..... with all that fuel running through the engine, it is washing the oil off of the cylinder walls and some is likely ending up in your crankcase after causing extra cylinder/ring wear. The diluted oil is also not adequately lubeing your bearings and transmission either. Bottom line, change the oil before you reinstall the injectors. Definitely going to need an oil change before riding again, and I will keep yo all in the loop. Now to find 200 bones for an injector X2

Good luck with your search and do let us know what you find....
Thanks,

William

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulevard1974 View Post
Thanks,

William
I believe you REALLY need to have the injectors tested by the injection shop.

They will tell you exactly how much they are flowing and the amount of leakage. They may be able to clean them or they will tell you if they need replacing.

Testing both and getting matching flow rates will help balance the power from both cylinders.

>
>
>>
06 C50C (Special Edition)
lowered 2" --- Metzler 880 www's
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DJ drive --- mustang 3 piece seat --- CW Tach
Vista Cruise --- 4X1.5 pullback risers

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Okay ... so today was a different day. I removed both injectors, ran seafoam through them energized under 40 psi and they sprayed from a week direct pattern to more of a proper pattern. I should have got a video of the pattern but didn't. I put the injectors back in and installed the tank with fuel pump. The bike ran fairly well, no idle but probably with the big pipes and intake I thought. Then rewiring the bully system it puked fuel fogging out any mosquitoes that may have been around. So with this I removed the tank and the bully system and thought well I clean the fuel out of the system by cranking over and let it burn it out.

Then the remarkable happened, when cranking the bike started and idled, no tank no fuel pump. It ran like this for about five minutes then started to sputter but still ran, then eventually died. If you cracked the throttle it would die but then started and idled again. Here is a video of it running with no tank, I am baffled how does fuel injection run for five minutes at an idle under no pressure. This is the best it has idled yet


Can any one enlighten me or have I just huffed too much gas fumes today?

W.

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