I have to go get my license upgraded to a M class. So since I have not ridden for 40+ years I am taking a permit test to get a temporary to get used to the VL800 before I take my road test.
I think someone at the DMV is not too bright, As I was reading the book for the temporary license, I am reading this section on avoidance, and it explains that in a emergency and needing to turn quickly to avoid a collision and to go quickly to the left, you should "press" the left handlebar and lean to the left. Now unless I have totally forgotten how to ride, pressing the left handlebar will turn the wheel to the right, and lean left will cause all kinds of problems ! :surprise: Unless they are calling pulling "pressing". I actually read it three times to make sure I didn't read it wrong.
Hi, You should definitely take the MSF course (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) to catch up on the challenges of the road today and get some practice in a mostly safe environment. You can brush up on some skills and work on pressing left or right to avoid a crash.
Another vote for the MSF course. It seems counter intuitive, but pressing on the left bar will turn the front wheel to the right, but that causes the bike to quickly dip to the left. Despite the front wheel being turned to the right, the bike will go left because that's the way it's leaned toward. If you work through the actually physics it makes perfect sense, but it's one of those things that doesn't make sense on the surface.
If you don't do this instinctively already - Or - if you don't learn to do it correctly you will drive off the outside of a curve and into the oncoming lane of a right hander or into the ditch on a left hander or --- do a high side which can really hurt. (Opposite in England and Aussie land)
Curves at any speed much over 20mph require this manouver for stability and safety.
Steering your bike any other way is making like you are steering a shopping cart.
If you have any doubts about how this works watch some motorcycle dirt track racing on an oval for an extreme example.--- Yes, if you over counter steer you will lowside.....
Also, place the bike on the side kickstand and turn the bars to the right(push on the left) and watch the lean of the bike and the height of the bars at the risers. Now turn the bars to the left and watch the same. The cause of this is a combination of the rake and trail of the front forks/wheel and a couple of other factors. (A bicycle has the same "angles" but the reaction doesn't enter the situation because of the lower speed of operation. )
Your front wheels on your car react the same way when turning - causing one fender to lift slightly and the other to drop (inside up and outside down/usually less than the opposite goes up)- but on the car it gives the car directional stability and helps return the steering wheel/s back to the straight ahead travel position when coming out of the turn. The setting on the car that causes this is a combination of caster and steering axis inclination.
"So since I have not ridden for 40+ years I am taking a permit test"
Since you haven't ridden in 40 years, like others said, take the MSF course.
I used to ride a Kaw Voyager (big bike) I sold it and didn't ride for over 20 years.(I'm now 71 and ride a c50):smile2: I took the course and found out there was lots of things I didn't know. Well worth the money and besides if you take it you probably won't have to take a test. One hint I will give you, forget what you think you know about riding and do it their way and you will be fine.
Ride safe come back here often and enjoy.
As others have already said, it is called countersteering. It is not intuitive to new riders, who have grown up only driving a 4 wheeled vehicle. Your bike steers by gyroscopic forces, not by turning the handlebars. To turn left, lean left, press left. The more you lean and the more you press, the deeper you lean and the faster you turn. Same goes for turning right. Lean right, press right, turn right.
Also, want to echo what others have already said as well. Take the MSF basic riders course. Do not learn to ride a bike the hard way. Learn to ride it the right way.
Wow, sure got my knees skinned on that one !! I rode for about three years in my 20's. In those three years I never had a close call or put a bike down. Even worked at a Harley Davidson shop as a Service Mgr. And I owned three bikes, and not little ones....a SX 1100 Yamaha, a 850 Norton and a Glide. It sure does seem counter intuitive, and I never thought about it in that sense, except in my mind as correcting on snow and ice in a car. Maybe I did indeed do it without thinking about it, but it just didn't look right on paper.
I will check out the MFS course. I still have to get the learners permit regardless.
I am 66 now and need all the help I can get. And now that I have it all fixed up I sure don't want to crash it and me.
Just got my plates today, but freezing rain and ice on the way for the next three days, and yesterday it was 71. We have a saying here in St. Louis MO.....if you don't like the weather wait an hour, it will change.
You don't need a learners permit for the MSF course, they do it in a parking lot off the main streets. You just have to have a driver's license. After you pass the course, they will give you a certificate to take to the DMV to have the motorcycle endorsement added.
Well, I would have to say more frustrating than stupid after my written snafu. I did get put through a PIA senario when I purchased this bike. The Missouri DMV required Bill of Sale, has at the top in the seller section a place for one or two sellers, such as a wife and husband it is written out as both singular or (plural) in parenthesis just as I did here.
Now down at the bottom for the signature portion, and in the shaded gray box for the seller signature is has this information line above the signature box
Signature of one seller. One as in singular. So when I bought the bike the "first" seller on the title signed and his wife did not per the instructions above the box.
Got to the DMV and they told me that BOTH sellers had to sign as there were two on the title. I pointed out that it was their form, and clearly states ONE as in singular as the method of signature. They would not relent. I had to go back and get the other signature of the wife even though their form said ONE and I complied with their directions.
So yeah, government entities can be nicely put frustrating to say the least.
I would agree with you except I have to get the bike to the course. And it is about 7-8 miles from me to the closest one. And it would be illegal for me to ride it to the course on the street without the learners permit. I have pretty much decided to do the course. But I also don't need a $100 ticket getting there. And with my luck I would get stopped.
I have everything else completed, safety inspection, plates, taxes, and insurance. But here it is not legal to put it on the street period without the learners permit, you have to get that first (written test only). And I have no intention of renting a trailer to get it there. I did that picking it up and getting it to the shop for inspection, then back to the house and parked.
Seriously? They provide the bikes? I did go to their site, and looked up the location of their courses, which is at a university. The next "step" was to register and I guess sign up and pay for the course which I did not do as I am not ready to do so until it gets considerable warmer.
I also wonder the value of taking the course on something you won't be riding. Seems would be best on the bike you own. I will check it out further as spring approaches. Better to crash their bike than mine lol.
Thanks everyone, all the info is much appreciated!
You probably won't wreck their bike. They take you through a slow step-by-step process to minimize the damage you might do to their property. You will be on a small bike that is easy to handle and manhandle should the need arise. It is probably easy to pick up but I didn't have to try that part out - of course, I did get to practice picking my c50 up a couple of times but it was leaning safely on the back wheel and highway bars. That only prepared me to pick up the k1200LT behemoth - ugh that takes some leg power.
You will pick up a lot of skills. Those skills will directly translate to your bike as the principles are the same on all motorcycles.
Everyone has mentioned counter steering already, I just wanted to pop in and say that it's a good thing that you are doublechecking everything. Even if the experts tell you something, occasionally they make a silly typo / misspeak a couple of words. So making sure is never a bad thing.
Meanwhile, every state trooper in Virginia is on the lookout for a kid driving a Corvette......
The irony of this is that I got my drivers license in Lebanon ,Va when I was 15. I remember it was very cold(February) my father had a 1959 Mercury(large lead sled). The cop came out got in the car(i turned the heater way up) he said"drive around the block and park here" I drove around the block and pulled up to park (parallel) he jumped out said come inside and I'll give you your license. I never did parallel park, I went over and angle parked.:biglaugh: That was 56 years ago.
Yes and the states and the feds are starting to pass laws against paying with pennies too. Funny I think I saw somewhere that the money they make is legal to pay all debts public and private.....just don't bother us in any way !!
While I can understand the ridiculous nature of the DMV, I would not want to be around when some goofball brings in wheelbarrows of pennies to pay for his bill. If this became a trend, people would be stranded at these places even longer - ugh!
At least here, there is a system in place that allows us to text our way into line and gives warnings when our turn is available in 15-20 minutes. No more waiting in the DMV for hours on end.
You guys make me feel good. GA made a lot of changes to our DMV a few years ago, and it isn't a problem here. I can do a lot of stuff online, but even when I do go into the DMV it's a 10 minute trip.
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