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bye bye Victory?

44K views 467 replies 45 participants last post by  beezer 
#1 ·
#3 ·
IMHO Indian make some nice bikes, but I tend to agree ......... overpriced. (Also premium insurance rates)
 
#5 ·
I do believe Polaris' Indian division will hurt Victory sales much more than Harley's. Let's face it, if Indian sells 30000 units/year (very believable number, from what I gather they're already more than halfway there) what's that going to do to HD and Vic numbers? It will annoy HD as it will slow their growth, maybe even stop their growth for a few years, but I don't think Indian will ever start shrinking them. Victory can't absorb lost sales for very long, if they start hurting Polaris will pull the plug and concentrate on Indian. This line of thinking contributed to my wife and I going with an Indian over a Victory.
 
#7 ·
I feel Indian and Victory sell to different markets. Indian sells the Harley-level market and Victory sells the premium Metric-level market (one step lower perhaps).

With the Scout being a a step above Sportster, maybe near the levels of the next up Harley, whatever that is. Dyna?

It's all about market.

I like the "idea" of an Indian with the heritage of the company.

Of course, I like the monthly payments and insurance quote on my C50 better. :)
 
#16 ·
I feel Indian and Victory sell to different markets.
Agreed. I like the looks of victory, so I bought one. I like the looks of Indian too, but that isn't my style. Harley doesn't appeal to me. Can't get past the looks. Nothing flows right on the majority of them. That still won't stop me from test riding one. Victory isn't going anywhere. There was the same discussion on the victory forums. Pent up demand and the scout was probably the reason for the high sales compared to victory.
 
#26 ·
Analyst Predicts Indian Will Outsell Victory in 2014



Do you think this is the start of the end of Victory?

Nope.... There will be 5 more cruiser manufacturers instead. Victory makes the most advanced american bike, Indian is the original American motorycle brand. Polaris has an endless stream of cash from its government contracts... They will expand both brands in a big way.

Polaris has enough cash to rebrand almost any great old brand.... They are going to gain market share by force, and if necessary, by predation. Lot of Harley people talk bout Victory's end every year and every year Victory gets stronger. Polaris is diverse and can easily survive the aging of the cruiser riders. Easily. Victory or Indian do not have to profit a sinle penny or polaris to build their coffers.
 
#27 ·
Somehow, most seem to forget that the beloved Boulevard is an inexpensive clone of the American Cruiser. So to deride the originals while loving the clone seems a little silly. In decades to come people will still be searching and paying good money for the original when the clones are recycled into plastic bins and garbage cans. Of course, there will be some who will get their panties in an uproar over that comment, I'm not saying the Boulevard is a bad motorcycle, it's just not to the quality level or the allure of even the maligned Sportster. All one has to do is look at the resale to grasp that. And even Sportsters have had front and rear disc breaks and offered ABS 9 years ago.
 
#80 ·
Somehow, most seem to forget that the beloved Boulevard is an inexpensive clone of the American Cruiser. So to deride the originals while loving the clone seems a little silly. In decades to come people will still be searching and paying good money for the original when the clones are recycled into plastic bins and garbage cans. Of course, there will be some who will get their panties in an uproar over that comment, I'm not saying the Boulevard is a bad motorcycle, it's just not to the quality level or the allure of even the maligned Sportster. All one has to do is look at the resale to grasp that. And even Sportsters have had front and rear disc breaks and offered ABS 9 years ago.
The fact that the Boulevard is a cruiser doesn't make it a clone. A clone would be the same whereas the Boulevard is a more advanced design at a lower price. With the weight of the bike disc brakes don't really matter and are a concession to the price point.
 
#34 ·
The "original American motorcycle brand" went out of business in 1953. The only thing today's Indian Motorcycle has in common with "the original American motorcycle brand" are the letters on the tank that spell "Indian". The rest of it is a good motorcycle built by a snowmobile company. I demo rode two of their models the day after Polaris (a snowmobile manufacturer) introduced them in Sturgis. They are good bikes, gobs of power, excellent fit and finish. And they are pricy. If I'm going to the Harley store for accessories I stop by the Indian dealer first, then when I go to the Harley store I feel like I'm getting a bargain. That snowmobile manufacturer makes a good bike with the word "Indian" painted on the tank, but if your looking for the "original American Motorcycle" you've been hoodwinked.

I also demoed Victory Cross Country and Vision and I quess it's just a Victory thing but I really didn't find anything about them I liked. The styling cue is just not my bag and the bikes presented for demo rides bordered on criminal as for the condition they were in. I can walk into practically any Vic dealer and find a new bike that is two years old still setting on the floor.

Depending on your size and what you want to use it for, the Scout is probably the best value on the market right now. 85 hp on that frame ? A tourer it's not, a rocket it is, a rocket built by a snowmobile manufacturer and it has nothing in common with "the original American Motorcycle" other than the letters on the tank, but it is a great little bike.
 
#50 ·
The "original American motorcycle brand" went out of business in 1953. The only thing today's Indian Motorcycle has in common with "the original American motorcycle brand" are the letters on the tank that spell "Indian". The rest of it is a good motorcycle built by a snowmobile company.
This.
 
#37 ·
Indian and Harley are the same, brandwise. Neither brand survived the 60s. Only the name remains. When Harley came back they put a Davidson on the board, but he actually has nothing to do with the company, other than his arrival and departure from the building. Neither Harley or Indian can claim continuity, because the reality is both have been bought and sold several times and Harley is now an employee of the market. Even the executives work for shareholders and the bottom line, not heritage, is their only friend

Indian had a harder time of it because they didnt survive the 50s. Now they are back as a real, non- boutique manufacturer, they have the same rights Harley has. The only difference is Indian is the real thing. Indian went down swinging rather than begging for mercy and charity, and they are the ORIGINAL first name in American bikes. Also, their bikes are way prettier; their design shares a great deal more heritage with my Harley Davidson (which was built by Harley and Davidson) than the more compromised stylings of todays Milwaukee based conglomerate.

Also Polaris is really, really really smart. In 2050 they will be punching out hover cars for the military and farmers for their real dollar, along with having the prestige and marketing angle of punching out new age cruisers.... Oh and we are the caretakers of the great indian name.... A far better strategy than waiting to sell Harley caskets to an aging customer group for a dwindling product. The share price indicates their value in the market comparatively. One company has a sustainable future. One will continue to use its history. make, Market, liquidate, sell... Make market liquidate, sell

Plus, its just totally cool to roll a freakin Indian. Harley is like McDonalds and Chevy. Iconic, good brands... But lets face it, everyone has, or has had one. Indian, not so. Also, the dressings on Indians bikes are just gorgeous, especially with some age on them. Once those curls on the motor get a patina.... Wow. i saw a used one at the show for sale and the brown leather seat had been aged by heat and water.... And it was simply magnificent... A real motorcycle seat... A saddle.
 
#38 ·
....oh, NOW it's the original "FIRST NAME" in American bikes.

Let us know when you figure it out. :biglaugh:

Here's a primer to help you out.

First some quick history: By 1931, only three US manufacturers had survived the great depression so far: Indian, which produced its first motorcycle in 1902, Harley-Davidson (built its first motorcycle in 1903 in a shed in Milwaukee 1905), and Excelsior-Henderson (first bike in 1905). However, EH foresaw the continuing depression and stopped producing on March 31, 1931. Indian fought longer but sales continued to decline; it was forced to halt production in 1953. Only Harley-Davidson kept continuous operations. During that process it became one of the strongest brands on the planet and a darling of Wall-Street in the 90s.
During those go-go late 1990s, the Indian and EH brands were bought by investors and resurrected, but only a small number of motorcycles were produced. (EH went bankrupt again in 1999 after capacity over-investment.) In 1998, Polaris introduced “Victory® motorcycles, representing the first all-new American-made motorcycle from a major company in nearly 60 years.” Today, 13 years after introduction, Victory’s market share remains in the low single digits. Harley-Davidson remains the leader by far.
I note again that in any discussion about motorcycles, some of you still use Harley as the standard for comparison. It's quite a compliment to their success. :wayhappy:

I guess I'll never be able to look at an Indian motorcycle again without being envious that theirs was the "first name" in American motorcycles. I'm glad the snowmobile company is doing them justice, they are a very nice motorcycle.
 
#39 ·
I guess I did figure it out. Indian was first....as in the first name in American motorcycles, thus.... The first name in American motorcycles.

As a heritage rider, Im just thrilled to see Indian back. They were always the first, and most certainly the coolest and most iconoclastic brand. I love my Harley, but the styling and pure styling, along with the incredible drivetrain (the sound of Indians big twin gives me goosebumps, it is velvety and sexy, yet pure Americana)

My first biker role model, a guy in my BILs club,,rode an old Indian and chopped it and kept flying. And it was by far 1000 times rarer and cooler than any Harley I have ever seen. That imagery stuck with me.... A biker may be a biker, but a biker that really wanted to stick it to the man ran an Indian. I was mighty impressed.

I will always have a soft spot in my heart for anyone who stands up against big, ugly, conglomerate corporate machines. Polaris, in many ways, did this just to needle the neighbors and sell a few bikes. And I thinks that rawks. im a bit of a subversive... And I love it when someone stands up against big business.

There is only one mediocre bike in their line up and that is their big dresser... Of course I hate big dressers, in every way anyway (I'd rather buy a Porsche than admit Im so old I need one) so that wouldnt be unusual. And I have ridden every bagger, it just so happens the best one is a victory....
 
#40 ·
Land vehicle Vehicle Motor vehicle Mode of transport Car


Immean, that is freakin gorgeous.... And it came that way. Wow.
 
#41 ·
Land vehicle Vehicle Motorcycle Motor vehicle Motorcycle helmet


And if you must have a modern bagger.... Yech....

You could have this one.


Now for the real ringer.... Old school, new school.... BOTH FROM THE SAME COMPANY.

I love it
 
#42 ·
Polaris is to snowmobiles as Harley is to motorcycles. A SUCCESSFUL conglomerate. Victory is what, 7% of Polaris total sales ? Oh my.

You could have this one.
Blech......but if that is what I wanted I could have walked into any dealer in the nation and picked up a brand new two year old floor modle and saved thousands. Now doesn't THAT exude confidence.

If Indian is to be the demise of Victory, let Victory's death be swift and merciful. Harley will still be around offering beautiful motorcycles as opposed to an Arlen Ness freak show.

And today's Indian "brand" shares nothing in common with the original other than the letters on the tank are in the same order. Today's Indian motorcycle has about as much connection with the 1903 Indian motorcycle company as my neighbor's Bayliner has with Noah's ark. :biglaugh:

When the "first name in American motorcycles" becomes important for me, I'll wait for Polaris to come out with the Orient-Aster.

Charles H. Metz is credited with being the first to coin the term "motor cycle," first used in an 1899 advertisement for the upcoming Orient. Waltham Manufacturing's 1900 Orient Light Roadster and "Orient-Aster" were America's first mass-production motor driven cycles, which were also known simply as the "Orient Motorcycle."
Metz first introduced his creation to the world in July 1900, at the Charles River Race Track in Boston, marking the first recorded motorcycle speed event in the United States. The Orient set a track time of 7 minutes over a five mile course.
btw, the Orient is a sweet looking bike.

Charles Metz & Waltham Motorcycle Mfg. History

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
 
#55 ·
Today's Indian motorcycle has about as much connection with the 1903 Indian motorcycle company as my neighbor's Bayliner has with Noah's ark.

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
Not sure of the point. Maybe the 2015 Harleys have everything in common with their 1906 model?

Now, if everyone would just buy a Honda like I did.........

All in good fun
 
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