Ethanol Update - Page 4 - Suzuki Volusia Forums : Intruder Volusia and Boulevard Forum

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:10 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RemingtonNY View Post
maybe thats why they put a 5 gal tank on the new C90, doubt it though
Not to worry the New C90 is also water cooled and has the most powerful motor in it's class according to their ads.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:22 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Here is an E10/E15 update from the Marine side of the business.

From "Trade Only", an email newsletter as reported by the NMMA.

"AAA has come out against the use of E15 at gas stations. “With little consumer knowledge about E15 and less than 5 percent of cars on the road approved by automakers to use that fuel, AAA is urging regulators and the industry to stop the sale of E15 until motorists are better protected,” the federation of motor clubs said in a statement issued Friday.

“In smaller quantities, ethanol is really good. It’s an oxygenator,” Currie told Trade Only. “The NMMA is not anti-ethanol. We can live with it in lower levels. It’s just when they increase it above 10 percent that it hurts engines.”

“Alcohol burns hotter than gasoline and causes engine damage,” he added. “It’s all a matter of heat.”

Whenever a person uses a gasoline pump, about half to three-quarters of a gallon is left in the hose, Currie said. So the EPA said it would mandate that a minimum of 4 gallons be dispensed at a time to dilute the concentration of fuel left behind.

“If you’re filling up a little tank to fill your (think motorcycle or ATV) lawnmower or weed whacker, what do you do? Do you pour the rest on the ground? They don’t say,” Currie said.

Ethanol has fewer Btu per gallon than gasoline, so the more ethanol the worse the gas mileage, Currie said."
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My comment: The new regulations will be made by legislators on behalf of their largest campaign contributors unless there is a united National industry (marine, auto, motorcycle, ATV, chain saw, etc)response that counters the corporate, agricultural, and Wall Street lobbying efforts and money. This issue is about giving money back to donors and not what is best for the environment. Follow the money.

Look at the bright side, it may force Suzuki to put a 5 or 6 gallon tank on the C50!
I would solve the mixture problem by having the multi mixture pumps have a single hose jacket over two smaller lines one for ethanol and one for gas with the computer doing the mixing right at the delivery nozzle. With modern computers everyone can then get the proper mixture. E00, E05, E10, E15, E30 or E85. I may be the first to use the E00 and E05 designations. To keep folks from drinking the ethanol the ethanol side wouldn't be pure ethanol (equivalent to grain alcohol) but be E85 to be mixed with the gas as needed to produce the desired blends.

The idea of spilling the gas on the ground or requiring dilution of the hose fluid by a minimum volume is silly.

Ethanol has fewer Btu per gallon than gasoline, so the more ethanol the worse the gas mileage, Currie said. But the saving grace may be the Ethanol enriched gas is cheaper according to most comparison pump post costs and the math shows the cost per mile is lower with ethanol fewer BTUs. For me I can live with lower MPG if they are in fact they are cheaper miles.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:36 AM   #33 (permalink)
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My hope is the Ethanol adjustable mixtures Dispensers Gas Pumps will in fact include one setting that is really low in alcohol I suspect we will have to have a little alcohol as it is now the what the industry basically uses instead of lead to raise octane.
Here in Canada we can buy ethanol free unleaded gasoline in any octane including 91 so apparently ethanol isn't needed to raise octane in unleaded gas. As an example Esso and PetroCan only sell ethanol blend gasolines in certain markets and Shell V Power premium is also ethanol free.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:17 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Here in Canada we can buy ethanol free unleaded gasoline in any octane including 91 so apparently ethanol isn't needed to raise octane in unleaded gas. As an example Esso and PetroCan only sell ethanol blend gasolines in certain markets and Shell V Power premium is also ethanol free.
Are you Canadians using methanol to gasoline in the form of MTBE, an additive that boosted octane, such use has been reduced since the late 1990s following federal recognition of MTBE's high potential for contaminating groundwater. MTBE is derived from wood alcohol with Ethanol another octane booster Ethanol another name for grain alcohol. Wood alcohol is dangerous to drink causing blindness and death in relatively small amounts. Grain Alcohol (Ethanol) is what we like about Canadian Beer and Whiskey.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:17 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Are you Canadians using methanol to gasoline in the form of MTBE, an additive that boosted octane, such use has been reduced since the late 1990s following federal recognition of MTBE's high potential for contaminating groundwater. MTBE is derived from wood alcohol with Ethanol another octane booster Ethanol another name for grain alcohol. Wood alcohol is dangerous to drink causing blindness and death in relatively small amounts. Grain Alcohol (Ethanol) is what we like about Canadian Beer and Whiskey.
Not that I'm aware of. I recall it was tried several years ago and there was a big flap but I haven't heard much about it lately. Locally I only know of two brands selling ethanol added to the gas.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:35 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Not that I'm aware of. I recall it was tried several years ago and there was a big flap but I haven't heard much about it lately. Locally I only know of two brands selling ethanol added to the gas.
I found this on the internet.

Canadian Federal law forces oil companies to sell gasoline in Canada with an ethanol content of 5 per cent, but the industry is going one better. The price ethanol on the futures market for the current delivery is only 57 cents (U.S.) a litre, less than half the most recent average retail price of gasoline being paid by drivers of $1.32 (Canadian) a litre calculated by Natural Resources Canada.

Maybe the gas stations only have to post ethanol content higher than the 5% required by Canadian Federal Law or maybe they do not have posting rules or posting enforcement. Newfoundland and Labrador are exempt from the federal rule, but Manitoba and Saskatchewan have introduced separate requirements for more, at 8.5 and 7.5 per cent, respectively. Bigger markets, such as Ontario and British Columbia, match the national requirement.

But from this Biofuel news report Canadian gas stations seem to be adding Ethanol to make a bigger profit as way more ethanol is being produced and imported to Canada than is needed to meet government requirements.

Canadian gasoline suppliers overcomplying with ethanol content rules | Latest BioFuels News and Information Relating to Renewable Energy Production and Use.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:22 AM   #37 (permalink)
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The lack of posting of Ethanol content in Canada and elsewhere in the lower States may be the result of deregulation a policy that according to it's promoters encourages free enterprise.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:10 PM   #38 (permalink)
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The selling of ethanol content fuel is beginning to sound like a politician - just enough truth to make it sound beneficial but not clear on where and how much.

The Petrocan site states that Federal Government regulations "must contain an annual pool average of 5% ethanol". Shell specifically states "Shell V-Power premium gasoline in Canada does not contain ethanol". Imperial Oil (Esso) states; "Ethanol-blended gasoline is currently available at participating Esso service stations in British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario. Stations selling ethanol-blended gasoline have a label on the pump indicating the gasoline may contain up to 10 percent ethanol." The article you linked to states "companies can sell gas with no ethanol in some places, provided they make up for it elsewhere in their sales network by adding more." Maybe its as simple as the tree hugger zones get catered to with the ethanol cut gas.

On a personal note I generally stay away from grocery and department store gas stations as I've long suspected the quality of their fuels. (Maybe the ethanol content is why.) If contract quantity gasoline purchases by independent outlets are cut with higher percentages of ethanol to lower their cost then its reasonable to speculate that perhaps it is them that's making up for this "annual pool average". What I'm not sure of is are retailers in Canada required to label the pump if the fuel contains ethanol. I know locally some brand retailers such as Husky and Mohawk do and is part of their marketing. I just filled my truck with 87 at Shell and nowhere could I see an ethanol label on any of the grades. Now that you've brought this to my attention I'm curious to see who is (at least locally) and who isn't posting ethanol content at the pumps. I still have 2 cars a work truck needing gas so I'm going to shop around and see who's displaying ethanol labels.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:41 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Ethanol here in the States isn't a tree hugger thing actually a lot of the tree huggers oppose ethanol. It's basically an energy independence thing replacing imported foreign oil with home grown product (Ethanol added to gas). Since we ramped up our use of Ethanol we have become an oil product exporter.

One rationale for ethanol production in the U.S. is increased energy independence, from shifting supply from oil imports to domestic sources. Ethanol production requires significant energy, and current U.S. production derives most of that energy from domestic coal, natural gas and other non-oil sources. Because in 2006, 66% of U.S. oil consumption was imported, compared to a net surplus of coal and just 16% of natural gas (2006 figures), the displacement of oil-based fuels to ethanol produced a net shift from foreign to domestic U.S. energy sources. Currently the USA is an net oil exporter in 2011 The U.S. exported more gasoline, diesel and other fuels than it imported in 2011 for the first time since 1949.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:30 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Ethanol is the biggest scam ever!
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